The Olympic Legacy

[ChezGiven 0]

Started a new thread on this for various reasons. The question of legacy is obviously hugely important for the long term view on the success of the games. You've got to hand it to LOCOG, they appear to know exactly what they are doing. The five promises were

• Make the UK a world-leading sporting nation
  
• Transform the heart of the East End of London
  
• Inspire a generation of young people to take part in local volunteering, cultural, and physical activity
  
• Make the Olympic Park a blueprint for sustainable living
  
• Demonstrate the UK is a creative, inclusive, and welcoming place to live in, visit, and for business
  

Now its all over and we can tick off 1 and 5 and although 2 depends on what happens in the future, the massive ovation for the volunteers and the general respect for the athletes competing means the event has done everything it could to inspire. The transformation of the east end depends on a few issues that need sorting out and i'm not 100% up on the future of the olympic park but it seems to me that the event itself did everything it could to provide the right platform for a long lasting legacy.

 

I was thinking about Sir Chris Hoy's comments, Brown's speech in Edinburgh yesterday and was wondering if the real legacy of the Olympics might be the UK itself?

[Meenzer 13967]

On point 4, the Olympic Village will no doubt become the usual overpriced cardboard commuter cages (with some minimal percentage set aside as "affordable housing", a horrible weasel phrase that's prevented the house price bubble from bursting like it ought to), but having spent a bit of time on the Park itself over the last few weeks, I'm reasonably confident it'll become a decent facility for locals as well as a destination in its own right. It's a nicely landscaped facility already and the plans for its development between now and the official (re)opening next year look good, plus it's close enough to the high-traffic Westfield centre that it shouldn't become a white elephant or anything. Shame they've felt the need to name it after the Queen, but hey, business as usual I guess.

 

Not convinced the benefit will particularly spread to the rest of the East End in any more tangible a way than the inevitable process of yummy-mummification would ensure anyway.

[ChezGiven 0]

Its good to know, i think its always hard to find efficient uses for this sort of infrastructure. In terms of the spread of economic benefit, i would have thought a two week advertising campaign for the tourist board will boost the economy for years to come. We've just had one massive advert for positive things about Great Britain and a dominant feature of the international reporting has been the warm welcome, friendliness of the people and the efficient facilities. Doesnt get much better than that.

 

I am really interested in what it means for 'Britishness' and the potential impact on the SNP's referendum. Do you think that the combined impact of the ceremonies, events and participation has changed how we see ourselves? I reflected on how KSA described the UK on Sunday, how he thought we were a nation of fat, lazy, shallow, selfish celebrity-obsessed idiots and how many people saw things like x-factor and faux-celebrity shite like TOWIE represented modern Britain. I dont think that view is as valid as it was.

[Meenzer 13967]

I definitely think it'll have that effect in the short term, both on ourselves and the wider world. Whether it's sustainable, well, who knows. For some reason I'm reminded of the temporary "softening" of the country after Diana's death, although obviously this is far less mawkish than that, being a feel-good factor rather than a wallowing-in-feeling-bad factor.

 

I think what the whole thing has done is make it quite clear that Britain enjoys more goodwill and respect in the world than we sometimes afford ourselves, given our tendency towards the cynical and self-critical (albeit with a dose of humour attached).

[ChezGiven 0]

The difference between Diana's death and the Olympics is that the former was about breaking down barriers between us through a shared emotion and an outward showing of that emotion, whereas the Olympics has shown us some ideals and values that we can put forward as being 'modern' British. I hesitate to suggest my own as i am more interested in how other people see this.

[Dr Gloom 19736]

sadly, i can't see stratford ever being anything but a shithole.

[PaddockLad 14527]

sadly, i can't see stratford ever being anything but a shithole.

 

I think the regeneration of Stratford was a big thing in the "legacy" statement, and although we've had a great games and we've shown that our capital isnt just a riot strewn shithole as it appeared to the world this time last year, it has to be said that the price for the most important part of this project (imo) is nine billion fuckin quid. Amazing what you can get government and private business to spend if theres something in it for them i.e. exposure on the world stage in a paricularly good light. If theyd just decided,off their own bat as it were, to regenerate Stratford, how much would it have cost without the Olympics?

[Meenzer 13967]

To flip that line of thinking, if Stratford is always going to be a shithole anyway, might as well get an Olympics out of it.

[PaddockLad 14527]

Its good to know, i think its always hard to find efficient uses for this sort of infrastructure. In terms of the spread of economic benefit, i would have thought a two week advertising campaign for the tourist board will boost the economy for years to come. We've just had one massive advert for positive things about Great Britain and a dominant feature of the international reporting has been the warm welcome, friendliness of the people and the efficient facilities. Doesnt get much better than that.

 

I am really interested in what it means for 'Britishness' and the potential impact on the SNP's referendum. Do you think that the combined impact of the ceremonies, events and participation has changed how we see ourselves? I reflected on how KSA described the UK on Sunday, how he thought we were a nation of fat, lazy, shallow, selfish celebrity-obsessed idiots and how many people saw things like x-factor and faux-celebrity shite like TOWIE represented modern Britain. I dont think that view is as valid as it was.

 

I dont think that view was ever completely valid, its just the media looking in its self obsessed mirror at itself and projecting what it sees on to the stupid and gullible. Just because there is a large-ish minority taken in by that rubbish it by no means the whole nation is. Theres millions of good people who dont draw attention to themselves in this country, and theyre not going to be featured to any great extent by the media because, by way of just quietly getting on with their lives, theyre not news-worthy.

 

Not sure if theres ever been complete unity in this country, the days of empire and 2 world wars were probably the closest we came. The (relative) economic hardships of the latter part of that period have polarized opinions and we now have Salmon who wants to be the last king of Scotland. Its not going to happen because of the economics, and it will have very little to do with wether the London Olympics made the Celts in the UK in general feel "British".

[Meenzer 13967]

Maybe the Games have shown that we don't need to wring our hands about that lack of unity and clearly defined identity, that we really are just the sum of our parts - whatever they may be - and that's not such a bad thing.

[ChezGiven 0]

Maybe the Games have shown that we don't need to wring our hands about that lack of unity and clearly defined identity, that we really are just the sum of our parts - whatever they may be - and that's not such a bad thing.

Could you not identify a national characteristic that stood out from the games?

[Meenzer 13967]

Could you not identify a national characteristic that stood out from the games?

 

Quiet confidence.

[ChezGiven 0]

I dont think that view was ever completely valid, its just the media looking in its self obsessed mirror at itself and projecting what it sees on to the stupid and gullible. Just because there is a large-ish minority taken in by that rubbish it by no means the whole nation is. Theres millions of good people who dont draw attention to themselves in this country, and theyre not going to be featured to any great extent by the media because, by way of just quietly getting on with their lives, theyre not news-worthy.

 

Not sure if theres ever been complete unity in this country, the days of empire and 2 world wars were probably the closest we came. The (relative) economic hardships of the latter part of that period have polarized opinions and we now have Salmon who wants to be the last king of Scotland. Its not going to happen because of the economics, and it will have very little to do with wether the London Olympics made the Celts in the UK in general feel "British".

 

No i dont think it was valid either, i was just using soft language. Someone recently told me that amongst TOWIE, Desperate Scousewives, Geordie Shore, Made in Chelsea etc, not one of them has more than a million viewers. Not sure how true that is but its nice to think that its a minority of people with nowt better to do with their lives.

 

Interested in the point about Scottish independence and economics, i saw some figure yesterday which said Scotland paid 9.7% of taxes and received 9.4% of spend, then another figure saying they contributed on average 4% less. I dont want to get into the boring fiscal stuff but is the economic case that clear? And is it clear to the electorate?

[ChezGiven 0]

Quiet confidence.

Unconditional support.

[PaddockLad 14527]

Maybe the Games have shown that we don't need to wring our hands about that lack of unity and clearly defined identity, that we really are just the sum of our parts - whatever they may be - and that's not such a bad thing.

 

Most countries of note iyam have their national identities defined for them by their deeds on Medieval and also quite modern battle fields. What do we think of the French? surrender monkeys, who will shag your wife. The Italians? reverse gear is the most used in their tanks and they will pinch your wifes arse before shagging her. Germans? robotic automotons to be feared, would prefer to persecute your wife for being non aryan etc etc...the thing is now we dont send thousands into battle any more we're stuck, theres nothing in the age of globalisation,immigration and asylum that defines any modern nation from the other that much. So this national debate about what defines us is pointless and irrelevant to me, which leads me to completly agree with you

[ChezGiven 0]

Most countries of note iyam have their national identities defined for them by their deeds on Medieval and also quite modern battle fields. What do we think of the French? surrender monkeys, who will shag your wife. The Italians? reverse gear is the most used in their tanks and they will pinch your wifes arse before shagging her. Germans? robotic automotons to be feared, would prefer to persecute your wife for being non aryan etc etc...the thing is now we dont send thousands into battle any more we're stuck, theres nothing in the age of globalisation,immigration and asylum that defines any modern nation from the other that much. So this national debate about what defines us is pointless and irrelevant to me, which leads me to completly agree with you

We arent the same as the French, Italians or Germans though, so something makes us different. If you are happy not knowing, thats fine. I do think there is cultural value in pursuing the question, as do most writers, artists and musicians, who inexorably represent us in the abstract and literal sense.

[Meenzer 13967]

Is it a concrete notion of "Britishness" that they're pursuing, though? Or just constituent aspects of it? Once a picture becomes sufficiently fragmented, it may be pointless to even try and see it as a coherent whole.

[PaddockLad 14527]

No i dont think it was valid either, i was just using soft language. Someone recently told me that amongst TOWIE, Desperate Scousewives, Geordie Shore, Made in Chelsea etc, not one of them has more than a million viewers. Not sure how true that is but its nice to think that its a minority of people with nowt better to do with their lives.

 

Interested in the point about Scottish independence and economics, i saw some figure yesterday which said Scotland paid 9.7% of taxes and received 9.4% of spend, then another figure saying they contributed on average 4% less. I dont want to get into the boring fiscal stuff but is the economic case that clear? And is it clear to the electorate?

 

Its tricky....since the credit crunch theres been a common school of thought of "jings! look at Ireland/Iceland...dont fancy independance now" but Salmon has adjusted his policies to suit, and with huge finds of oil off the west coast of Orkney and Shetland the more militant "indy's" are trying to make a stronger case. Salmonds "devolution +" seems muddles to me, does he just want an independant exchequer? dont see the point in that. For me, having a foot in both camps, am fairly strongly supportive of the union. Its been good for nearly every part of the UK since the end of the last war iyam.

[PaddockLad 14527]

We arent the same as the French, Italians or Germans though, so something makes us different. If you are happy not knowing, thats fine. I do think there is cultural value in pursuing the question, as do most writers, artists and musicians, who inexorably represent us in the abstract and literal sense.

 

 

You'll be better placed to judge, but for me the French think we're arrogant and we think the French are arrogant, which tells you just about everything you need to know

[Meenzer 13967]

You'll be better placed to judge, but for me the French think we're arrogant and we think the French are arrogant, which tells you just about everything you need to know

 

It gets worse - the Germans think we hog the sunbeds!

[PaddockLad 14527]

It gets worse - the Germans think we hog the sunbeds!

 

See what I mean?

 

my neighbour is from Berlin and he's a smashing lad, but I havent had the opputunity to dig him about Teutonic Olympic failure...he may take offence and invade my back yard...

[ChezGiven 0]

See what I mean?

 

my neighbour is from Berlin and he's a smashing lad, but I havent had the opputunity to dig him about Teutonic Olympic failure...he may take offence and invade my back yard...

I assume thats not a euphemism.

[Meenzer 13967]

I assume thats not a euphemism.

 

Straight through the middle of his Brandenburg Gate.

[wykikitoon 16496]

A lad I know who lives in London emailed me today, said the tube etc is back to normal. Busy and full of people not saying a single word to each other

[Dr Gloom 19736]

that's exactly what it's like. it's been a fucking miserable post olympics hangover these last couple of days.

 

my train into work was the busiest it's been for three weeks cos every fucker was too scared to come in during the games. getting around london's been mint the last couple of weeks. great weather in the main, people friendly and chatting to strangers, the west end like a ghost town.

 

normal service has now been resumed. i blame the closing ceremony - the perfect platform for a return to cynicism and for us all to have a good old moan again.