tooninlondon 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) 1st post just discovered this forum long time supporter based in London Just been reading this on the bbc website although all are not bad Though bit of a paradox The greed ...Michael Owen The Bad...Joey Barton Using them as reference pointers http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-19281103 Edited August 17, 2012 by tooninlondon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JawD 31 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Welcome to the forum. Stick a tin hat on, the initiation doesn't hurt really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooninlondon 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Thank you for the intro........tin hat is on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34190 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) They're all a bunch of bellends. I take, at best, a passing interest in football these days cos the dickheads involved in the game are just too annoying. And then some of the biggest twats of all get rewarded with media jobs when they retire. It's bad enough that you had to watch these pricks play, but for them then to become the media face of the game too is incredible. Edited August 17, 2012 by Gemmill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooninlondon 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 They're all a bunch of bellends. I take, at best, a passing interest in football these days cos the dickheads involved in the game are just too annoying. And then some of the biggest twats of all get rewarded with media jobs when they retire. It's bad enough that you had to watch these pricks play, but for them then to become the media face of the game too is incredible. I get that...and myself is a hardened cynic......(too many years to mention)...but did feel we as nufc did turn a corner last season on this....with many fans out there secretly hoping that their club could be run like ours....and then the olympics playing it`s part , but we know greedy agents and players always exist.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CleeToonFan 1 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Aye lets judge thousands of people based on an occupation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8950 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Aye lets judge thousands of people based on an occupation Why not? It's fair when it comes to expecting taxi-drivers to be know it all bellends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Transfer 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 (edited) Don't really have a problem with football or footballers. Some aren't portrayed in the best light via the press but they're either an exception to the rule and/or it's the press (some of who I do have a problem with) making them into something they're not. I don't know these people so I'm not going criticise them as people. I dislike them diving and mouthing off to the ref, but sadly that's part of football as a whole now, not something only the bad boys do. What I don't quite get is people recently over-praising some of the Olympians in comparison to footballers, because they saw them (Olympians) cycling/swimming/running etc for a few minutes and then witnessed a quick interview after. That being the sum total of said person's exposure to whoever. Edited August 17, 2012 by Monroe Transfer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasjuice 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Agree MT, as has been pointed out elsewhere despite all the hailing of great sportmanship, fair play and some sort of vague moral superiority to football, there were athletes disqualified for doping, attempts at match fixing, racist fans and that fencer who broke down in tears and refused to move, demanding that the judge overturned the decision that she'd lost. Jealousy always plays a part with perception of footballers, or any high achievers for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooninlondon 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 Yes there is many in the lower leagues who do not thrive on the media oxygen bubble But premership is fair game as it is more highlighted , therefore higher profile for roles models, with the olympians although the media oxygen is not as much they still set a bar which children etc will aspire for , I love football...love the toon, and as I wrote in first post , I think we as a club are maybe starting to turn , but I do think the look in the mirror needs to be in vogue this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasjuice 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Yes there is many in the lower leagues who do not thrive on the media oxygen bubble But premership is fair game as it is more highlighted , therefore higher profile for roles models, with the olympians although the media oxygen is not as much they still set a bar which children etc will aspire for , I love football...love the toon, and as I wrote in first post , I think we as a club are maybe starting to turn , but I do think the look in the mirror needs to be in vogue this season What would you like to see change? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooninlondon 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 What would you like to see change? Respect for the good of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerbarton 24 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 It's a cliche by now but it really is all about money. As Holloway said, the desire, grit and determination for the sake of the love of the game is tainted when they're earning more than the average yearly wage in half a week. It's very rare to see a lot of footballers celebrate sport for sport's sake in the same way as we saw the Olympians do, then again we must remember that the Olympics is the pinnacle of these sportsmen and women's careers and the only time they come under real sustained media scrutiny. The popularity of football in this country has beset it with the evils of money but also wicked media interest that has led to the kind of dreadful PR training that routinely sees the most insipid and dull interviews conducted with most players. I think it is also important to remember that a lot of Olympians came from much more privileged backgrounds than footballers and are therefore much more articulate in how they express themselves. I think we're all aware that money is the problem here but with the backdrop of the capitalist values we are all brought up with, it almost seems unfair to suggest the idea of a wage cap. Certainly if any kind of measure were mooted, there would be a lot of powerful enemies in the way of it. The only other solution would be some kind of limitation placed upon television contracts etc. but considering the vested interests of the key players that is never going to happen. I fear we've gone too far to turn back and it will all end in implosion ultimately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooninlondon 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 It` remind`s me of the tune pop will eat itself (which it has with all the xfactor shit)....now it should be football will eat itself....and it`s well on the way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoveTheBobby 1 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I think the timescale and points of reference are quite relevant in this . I see your PWIE and ask you to consider their Midlands compadres The Wonder Stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkd_BJozZB0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooninlondon 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 I`ll see you and raise I want your money by the flying Lizards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman 2188 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I think the fault lies with the media that blows smoke up the arses of morons because they're "celebrities". Unfortunately the attention seekers are also often the least interesting or biggest arseholes. Like Michael Owen for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8950 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I`ll see you and raise I want your money by the flying Lizards Oh yeah? have a bit of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasjuice 0 Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 It's a cliche by now but it really is all about money. As Holloway said, the desire, grit and determination for the sake of the love of the game is tainted when they're earning more than the average yearly wage in half a week. It's very rare to see a lot of footballers celebrate sport for sport's sake in the same way as we saw the Olympians do, then again we must remember that the Olympics is the pinnacle of these sportsmen and women's careers and the only time they come under real sustained media scrutiny. The popularity of football in this country has beset it with the evils of money but also wicked media interest that has led to the kind of dreadful PR training that routinely sees the most insipid and dull interviews conducted with most players. I think it is also important to remember that a lot of Olympians came from much more privileged backgrounds than footballers and are therefore much more articulate in how they express themselves. I think we're all aware that money is the problem here but with the backdrop of the capitalist values we are all brought up with, it almost seems unfair to suggest the idea of a wage cap. Certainly if any kind of measure were mooted, there would be a lot of powerful enemies in the way of it. The only other solution would be some kind of limitation placed upon television contracts etc. but considering the vested interests of the key players that is never going to happen. I fear we've gone too far to turn back and it will all end in implosion ultimately. Is it?! Granted you don't see them breaking down in tears of joy after each 3 points, but look at any Cup final/league win and tell me they're not celebrating the sporting achievement. Look at any World Cup/Euro final (or even many knockout games) and there'll be players crying, not through lost earnings, but because of how much it hurt to lose. Just for the record (and yes to play devils advocate a bit tbh), Jess, Bradley, Hoy and Daley will earn more than a fair amount of premiership footballers over the next couple of years, you're talking millions of pounds in sponsorship/advertising alone. Should we look at capping that?? And, while I'm on a bit of a rant, it pisses me off when people say all they do is kick a ball about so they don't deserve what they earn. They're paid what they're worth to the company that employs them, same as anyone else. It's how business works, whinging idiots Respect for the good of the game And how would you tell that this has happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerbarton 24 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Is it?! Granted you don't see them breaking down in tears of joy after each 3 points, but look at any Cup final/league win and tell me they're not celebrating the sporting achievement. Look at any World Cup/Euro final (or even many knockout games) and there'll be players crying, not through lost earnings, but because of how much it hurt to lose. Just for the record (and yes to play devils advocate a bit tbh), Jess, Bradley, Hoy and Daley will earn more than a fair amount of premiership footballers over the next couple of years, you're talking millions of pounds in sponsorship/advertising alone. Should we look at capping that?? And, while I'm on a bit of a rant, it pisses me off when people say all they do is kick a ball about so they don't deserve what they earn. They're paid what they're worth to the company that employs them, same as anyone else. It's how business works, whinging idiots And how would you tell that this has happened? I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet to a certain extent here. I love football and of course there are some players who really do care about professional achievement. That said, who, in any line of work, wouldn't want to succeed? Especially at the pinnacle of the game as your example cites. The question marks arise when the going gets tough and, to me, it often seems like some footballers really couldn't care less. Think back to our relegation season and I have to ask how many players really truly cared. Nicky Butt is about the only one who springs to mind as really displaying commitment on the pitch, though doubtless the likes of Colo and Jonas have done enough since then to make it seem plausible that they were committed to the cause. With regards your point about capping earnings, I think I actually made it clear that by the way of the world as it is I don't think it would necessarily be fair to place a cap on footballers' wages and such a ruling would most probably be easily bypassed in any case. I think the crux of the issue is actually that there are a lot of footballers out there earning vast sums of money who, when it comes down to it, have achieved absolutely nothing and shown very little dedication to their club. Goodness knows I can think of a lot who have played for us over the last 10 or 15 years (actually probably with the exception of only the last three seasons). Here's the key point: the earnings of Hoy, Ennis etc. are in direct correlation to their success. Their income is not the going rate for athletes, even Olympic athletes, it is the result of great success. It is perhaps what they deserve. The Premier League is a very different beast as an extraordinary money machine. There are over 540 players in the Premier League, all earning an amount of money that I'd hazard is astonishing for any of us. How many of them have achieved in the same way as Hoy, Ennis etc? A handful I would suggest. Then devil's advocate would, of course, counter that by the very nature of team sport success cannot be measured in quite the same way as most Olympians but I think my point still stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooninlondon 0 Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 Is it?! Granted you don't see them breaking down in tears of joy after each 3 points, but look at any Cup final/league win and tell me they're not celebrating the sporting achievement. Look at any World Cup/Euro final (or even many knockout games) and there'll be players crying, not through lost earnings, but because of how much it hurt to lose. Just for the record (and yes to play devils advocate a bit tbh), Jess, Bradley, Hoy and Daley will earn more than a fair amount of premiership footballers over the next couple of years, you're talking millions of pounds in sponsorship/advertising alone. Should we look at capping that?? And, while I'm on a bit of a rant, it pisses me off when people say all they do is kick a ball about so they don't deserve what they earn. They're paid what they're worth to the company that employs them, same as anyone else. It's how business works, whinging idiots But my original post was not just about greed...and to be honest we all know long gone are the days that most players have the fans..clubs at heart... but the way football is going it will implode And how would you tell that this has happened? That can only from within and address all these issues http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19303004 Though I shall keep following the toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasjuice 0 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 That can only from within and address all these issues http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/19303004 Though I shall keep following the toon So you want them to show you respect by not having inconvenient KO times (a thing for which they're paid millions upon millions by Sky so that they can show more games, rather than having to pick one from ten 3pm kick offs) and by reducing ticket prices ? That wouldn't be respect, that would be one of the single most bizarre, self-damaging bits of business in history. And what a waste of time that survey is, ask 'Is the price of x too high' for basically anything, rent, house prices, bread, pints, and you'll get about 90% saying yes. Is your pub being disrespectful by charging what they need to make their business a success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasjuice 0 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I think we're singing from the same hymn sheet to a certain extent here. I love football and of course there are some players who really do care about professional achievement. That said, who, in any line of work, wouldn't want to succeed? Especially at the pinnacle of the game as your example cites. The question marks arise when the going gets tough and, to me, it often seems like some footballers really couldn't care less. Think back to our relegation season and I have to ask how many players really truly cared. Nicky Butt is about the only one who springs to mind as really displaying commitment on the pitch, though doubtless the likes of Colo and Jonas have done enough since then to make it seem plausible that they were committed to the cause. With regards your point about capping earnings, I think I actually made it clear that by the way of the world as it is I don't think it would necessarily be fair to place a cap on footballers' wages and such a ruling would most probably be easily bypassed in any case. I think the crux of the issue is actually that there are a lot of footballers out there earning vast sums of money who, when it comes down to it, have achieved absolutely nothing and shown very little dedication to their club. Goodness knows I can think of a lot who have played for us over the last 10 or 15 years (actually probably with the exception of only the last three seasons). Here's the key point: the earnings of Hoy, Ennis etc. are in direct correlation to their success. Their income is not the going rate for athletes, even Olympic athletes, it is the result of great success. It is perhaps what they deserve. The Premier League is a very different beast as an extraordinary money machine. There are over 540 players in the Premier League, all earning an amount of money that I'd hazard is astonishing for any of us. How many of them have achieved in the same way as Hoy, Ennis etc? A handful I would suggest. Then devil's advocate would, of course, counter that by the very nature of team sport success cannot be measured in quite the same way as most Olympians but I think my point still stands. I think just being a premier league footballer (perhaps over the age of around 23 when the ability to coast through on natural ability and potential wears off) is something of a sporting achievement though, similar to the way just making it to an Olympics is. Say there are around 400 players who would regularly get a game (20 per team), and there are oooo say 1 billion people in the world who would give a nut to be a premiership footballer, and even the sub's are in the top 0.00000001283872% of the population. How many people want/do any sort of training towards becoming a diver? By my calculations Daley coming 3rd is proportionally probably about the same as a player like oooo Kieron Gibbs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tooninlondon 0 Posted August 18, 2012 Author Share Posted August 18, 2012 So you want them to show you respect by not having inconvenient KO times (a thing for which they're paid millions upon millions by Sky so that they can show more games, rather than having to pick one from ten 3pm kick offs) and by reducing ticket prices ? That wouldn't be respect, that would be one of the single most bizarre, self-damaging bits of business in history. And what a waste of time that survey is, ask 'Is the price of x too high' for basically anything, rent, house prices, bread, pints, and you'll get about 90% saying yes. Is your pub being disrespectful by charging what they need to make their business a success? As I put in one of my posts....I will wait for it implode ....but not with Schadenfreude... meantime I`ll carry on watching the toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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