rogerbarton 24 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I agree with the point that we don't actually have the central midfielders for 4-4-2. Cabaye isn't one to dominate the game in the middle, he's someone who uses the ball well and can pick out a killer pass given space. Tiote, as we all know, is essentially a destroyer who offers little attacking threat. And, yes, add to that the fact that Jonas hasn't got a brilliant cross on him and Ben Arfa is restricted on the right of a 4-4-2 - I think both of them are actually better suited to their role in the 4-3-3 setup (and Cabaye certainly is). 4-4-2 certainly worked well at times last season (though mostly in the first half of the season with a different XI to what we have now) but since Ben Arfa and Cisse have been in the side we haven't ever played as fluidly with 4-4-2 as 4-3-3. Yes, we beat Chelski 2-0 and that was an excellent performance, but not a wonderfully fluid one, it was owed a great deal to a solid defensive performance and two peaches from Cisse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonasjuice 0 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I didn't even read that because I just don't care, that's how boring I find you and the subject. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CabayeAye Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 This in itself begs the question, if AC is to come back are we going to start punting balls into the box for him and who will do it? I'd love to see him come back and play alongside Cisse/Ba. We need 4 strikers to rotate, and we could play 442, 433 or 4321 with a target man sucessfully. By having our existing ball playing front six combined with a target man, we could wreak havoc on defences. They wouldn't know whether to tightly mark AC and his chums for knockdowns, or to stay in shape to avoid getting cut open by through balls from HBA and Cabaye. We play a bit of hoofball under Pardew, and it's wasted on Ba and Cisse. Having AC to convert a hoof into a knockdown would play right into Dembas' hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 our 4-4-2 only work when we occationally actually score on a hoof. We have the players for carpetball and yet we line up with a negatively minded 4-4-2 formation. Think we will see the best of cisse and ba if they are getting passes on the ground from cabaye and ben arfa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 I agree with the point that we don't actually have the central midfielders for 4-4-2. Cabaye isn't one to dominate the game in the middle, he's someone who uses the ball well and can pick out a killer pass given space. Tiote, as we all know, is essentially a destroyer who offers little attacking threat. And, yes, add to that the fact that Jonas hasn't got a brilliant cross on him and Ben Arfa is restricted on the right of a 4-4-2 - I think both of them are actually better suited to their role in the 4-3-3 setup (and Cabaye certainly is). 4-4-2 certainly worked well at times last season (though mostly in the first half of the season with a different XI to what we have now) but since Ben Arfa and Cisse have been in the side we haven't ever played as fluidly with 4-4-2 as 4-3-3. Yes, we beat Chelski 2-0 and that was an excellent performance, but not a wonderfully fluid one, it was owed a great deal to a solid defensive performance and two peaches from Cisse. 4-4-2 is fine...when you have wingers like Lennon and Bale. We have simply signed too many players that don't fit into a 4-4-2 to continue playing it. Jonas has lost his pace, and simpson provides zero threat as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 our 4-4-2 only work when we occationally actually score on a hoof.We have the players for carpetball and yet we line up with a negatively minded 4-4-2 formation. Think we will see the best of cisse and ba if they are getting passes on the ground from cabaye and ben arfa. Carpetball is a fine notion however I'm not sure Ben Arfa is that good at it. Seems to hold on to the ball far too long before trying to release a killer pass. Think the strikers would benefit better from Marveaux or Cabaye just behind them as they would know the simple killer ball would always be their first choice, not attempting to take on another two defenders to edge another 5 feet up the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 I think it often is due to lack of options. Ben Arfa is a quality passer too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I think it often is due to lack of options. Ben Arfa is a quality passer too. Im sure he is but his mentality is to dribble and score first, where as the likes of Marveaux / Cabaye is more advance the attack. Brilliant when it comes off for him but must be very hard for a forward or marauding defender to try and predict when to run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 They should just shut it and run with him. If he decides to pass fine, otherwise go on hatem lad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 our 4-4-2 only work when we occationally actually score on a hoof. We have the players for carpetball and yet we line up with a negatively minded 4-4-2 formation. Think we will see the best of cisse and ba if they are getting passes on the ground from cabaye and ben arfa. What's negative about sacrificing a midfielder, going light against teams playing 3 there to have an extra player further up the pitch? As we have 2 great finishers up top, I guess the thinking is that getting the ball to them leads to goals. it's 'negative' if the midfield can't find any space in the middle or out wide and the defenders have to knock it long. I think you missed the thread where we broke down the myth of the 4-3-3 from last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 http://touch.dailymotion.com/video/x7igdz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 What's negative about sacrificing a midfielder, going light against teams playing 3 there to have an extra player further up the pitch? As we have 2 great finishers up top, I guess the thinking is that getting the ball to them leads to goals. it's 'negative' if the midfield can't find any space in the middle or out wide and the defenders have to knock it long. I think you missed the thread where we broke down the myth of the 4-3-3 from last season. No that hard defending against long balls if you have a decent defence, having two strikers hanging around up top also causes us to get overrun in midfield even against weaker teams. Yes Ba does drop deeper sometimes but I dont think he is particularily good at it. In the long run if you dont run the midfield you will lose more than you win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Ben Arfa isn't good at playing it on the deck are you for real? it's because a lot of the time others around him don't make movements quick enough to make themselves available generally, if you watch those highlights videos someone posted in other thread i bet there's a load of times when he's got a couple round him and looks up to find no "triangles" available so ends up having to play the dribble card. you either play completely that way or you don't sadly, no point trying it half arsed you need everyone willing to play the 1touch pass routine and always looking for the ball. Spot on Ant. Ben arfa just wants to bomb forward, if he had players running alongside him he would pass it around constantly. Our other players doesnt follow so he is forced to do it himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Spot on Ant. Ben arfa just wants to bomb forward, if he had players running alongside him he would pass it around constantly. Our other players doesnt follow so he is forced to do it himself. Didnt seem to want to pass to Marveaux a few times on Saturday when he was in great central positions. The bottom line is that Ben Arfa needs to learn to harness his great ability to the benefit of the team as people like Beardsley and Gascoigne could do. So far he doesnt come close to comparing with either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Time will tell. Should C.Ronaldo pass it around more as well? Yes he should but it doesnt take away from anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Time will tell. Should C.Ronaldo pass it around more as well? Yes he should but it doesnt take away from anything Not quite Ben Arfa is he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've seen enough of Ben Arfa to know that if there is a pass on he will make it. Likewise I've seen him make passes that nobody else on the pitch could see. It's all about movement though, we lacked it on Saturday and even against Spurs as well. He's been our best player in both games so far this season yet it seems like CT is always looking for a negative in a player who is a genius and we should he cherishing every moment he is on the pitch for us. As who knows the next time we'll see a player like him in a black and white shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Likewise I've seen him make passes that nobody else on the pitch could see. Including the players he is passing too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've seen enough of Ben Arfa to know that if there is a pass on he will make it. Somewhere in the world something blunt just made impact with a headed metal pin into a piece of wood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 4851 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 I've seen enough of Ben Arfa to know that if there is a pass on he will make it. Likewise I've seen him make passes that nobody else on the pitch could see. It's all about movement though, we lacked it on Saturday and even against Spurs as well. He's been our best player in both games so far this season yet it seems like CT is always looking for a negative in a player who is a genius and we should he cherishing every moment he is on the pitch for us. As who knows the next time we'll see a player like him in a black and white shirt. He is doing it because thats CTs nature. Against the grain at every opportunity. The sad thing is he actually starts believing some of the wind-ups he goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Honestly Fanboy stuff pouring out at the minute from some of you. Nobody is saying he is not a very good player but he is more like Ronaldo without the quality or goals than like Beardsley or Gascoigne. A great player knows when to turn it on and when to keep it simple. HBA seems to struggle with this bit which is why he has probably not gone on to great things with France, why we got him so cheap and why clubs are not knocking down the door to get him. A very good player unlike any we currently have, but by no means a great player for the very simple reasons Ive given. If you dont understand these points then I suggest you take your rose tinted glasses off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Typical CT retort there going on about the fanboys. He plays absolutely nothing like Ronaldo. Ronaldo is a flat track bully that nowadays is all about his pace, strength and athleticism. Ben Arfa is the complete opposite to this and is all about pure skill and natural talent. You can tell you don't watch much other football like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 Typical CT retort there going on about the fanboys. He plays absolutely nothing like Ronaldo. Ronaldo is a flat track bully that nowadays is all about his pace, strength and athleticism. Ben Arfa is the complete opposite to this and is all about pure skill and natural talent. You can tell you don't watch much other football like. Simple question, do you think he is a better team player than Gascoigne or Beardsley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake Bells tits 1 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 What a load of absolute shit. Nobody is saying he is not a very good player but he is more like Ronaldo without the quality Yeah Ronaldo who cant even go past a single player anymore and is 10 times more egoistic than ben arfa HBA seems to struggle with this bit which is why he has probably not gone on to great things with France, why we got him so cheap and why clubs are not knocking down the door to get him. HBA has been injured for 18 months, prior to that he played against us in a friendly ( and scored a fucking belter by the way). The reason we got him so cheap - as Im sure you are well aware of but decides to WUM about nontheless, is because A, He has had diciplinary problems B, He has been recovering for 18 months from a careerthreatening injury If you cannot see that HBA is a great fotballer, then I cannot help you. All I can say is that he is hailed as the absolute finest talent of his generation, from a year breeding Nasri and Benzema - of which HBA was considered the bigger talent. By no means a great player Who is then, Shane Ferguson who you enjoy championing from time to time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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