How good was (Paul Bracewell)?

[Dr Gloom 19806]

Stevie, to say he was nothing like glen hoddle shows you don't know wtf you're talking about. His legs had gone by the time he joined us because of Injury but he could still spray the ball around. He was class at Everton alongside Reid, like I said. Prob woukd have started in midfield at the World Cup in Mexico if he hadn't knackered himself that year.

[David Kelly 1117]

He was a very good player for us for two years but his legs had gone as has been said. We were probably lucky to get the one season out of him in the premiership where it was simply his experience that got him through alongside Bobby Lee and Clarky.

On looking at his stats, I'm quite surprised at how many games he played for us as I don't have a great deal of specific memory of him like I do with others around that time. I'm also surprised at how many games he played after he left.

[McFaul 35]

Stevie, to say he was nothing like glen hoddle shows you don't know wtf you're talking about. His legs had gone by the time he joined us because of Injury but he could still spray the ball around. He was class at Everton alongside Reid, like I said. Prob woukd have started in midfield at the World Cup in Mexico if he hadn't knackered himself that year.

Stevie, to say he was nothing like glen hoddle shows you don't know wtf you're talking about. His legs had gone by the time he joined us because of Injury but he could still spray the ball around. He was class at Everton alongside Reid, like I said. Prob woukd have started in midfield at the World Cup in Mexico if he hadn't knackered himself that year.

Utter UTTER bollocks. Probably would've started midfield. My god. Bryan Robson (fair enough he got injured in the second game) and Hoddle were far far above him in centre midfield, then you had Wilkins who was playing for AC Milan at the time, Reid, Steve Hodge, they were all in before Bracewell irrespective of him being injured pre tournament. He only ever got 3 England caps, and in a career spanning 20 years scored TWENTY TWO goals. He was fuck all like Glenn Hoddle, just accept it and stop making yourself look stupid.

 

Tell me three goals Bracewell made for other players during his spell at Newcastle. Hoddle used to make them every game, he was a genius, Bracewell was a water carrier like Deschamps. That's not to say you don't need water carriers to keep possession. To be fair both Hoddle and Bracewell would laugh at the notion that they were in any way similar.

[Dr Gloom 19806]

He was way more than a water carrier for Everton. He was one of the best midfielders in the country at that time, an England international known for his passing and vision, that win two league championships plus the European cup winners cup in his time at Everton.

 

I honestly have no idea how many goals he created for us. It was about 20 years ago. The comparison with hoddle stands, even after his game changed due to injury, because of his passing ability. You said they're nothing alike. You don't know what the fuck you're on about man - water carrier ffs.

[Dickie 0]

Bracewell was a top player and I enjoyed watching him for us whenever he was fit - he was well past his best when we got him though. I know what you mean about his passing Gloom - he very rarely gave the ball away and his passes were really decisive and crisp, a joy to watch really. However you can't say his passing was in the same bracket as Hoddle, who was genuinely brilliant on the ball. In terms of creativity and making things happen with a decisive pass, there's no competition. Hoddle used to play some absolutely sublime passes, on a regular basis - not sure anything Brace ever did could be called subime.

 

I remember him coming on as a sub after a long lay off when we were playing really poorly in one match in 93-94.. can't for the life of me remember what game it was but I've got a feeling it was a against lower league opposition in one of the cups. Anyway he came on, having not played in a good long time (from memory) and just totally grabbed hold of the game by the scruff of the neck, both with his hard tackling and keeping hold of possession, driving the rest of the team forward form deep. As I say, can't for the life of me remember the match but it's my one abiding memory of his at the Toon - a joy to behold. Must have been well into his thirties by then?

[Dr Gloom 19806]

I wouldn't say his passing was quite as good as hoddle's necessarily - he wasn't quite as gifted. But he definitely had that same ability to pick a long raking pass to feet. And he was less of a fancy Dan. He was one of the best midfielders in the country when he played for Everton. That's not in dispute. You only have to look at his honours.

 

And there's no way you can call him a water carrier. Even after he joined us when injury had hampered his engine, he could still pick a pass. Water carrier is something I'd say about Ray 'the crab' Wilkins. Now there was an over rates England midfielder - never passed the ball forwards, or more than about 10 yards.

 

The reason I know more about Bracewell than most is my old man's side of the family are evertonians. I was dragged to Everton matches as a boy and they all raved about him.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Dr Gloom

[sweetleftpeg 0]

Bracewell was the right player at the right time, a knack KK had. He def wasn't the player he used to be, but as Stevie said it was the 2nd division so it was about his level at that point. Def helped that he scored that raker early on due to the mackem connection. I remember the day we signed him and my old man expleting a loud 'What the fuck?'

[McFaul 35]

However you can't say his passing was in the same bracket as Hoddle, who was genuinely brilliant on the ball. In terms of creativity and making things happen with a decisive pass, there's no competition. Hoddle used to play some absolutely sublime passes, on a regular basis - not sure anything Brace ever did could be called subime.

Absolutely spot on. I can't think of two centre midfield players who are less alike.

 

I think the Didier Deschamps analogy is absolutely correct too, he was just like him.

[sweetleftpeg 0]

One regret is that I never saw Glenn Hoddle in is prime. For all the boring/weird manager and pundit stuff you forget he was one of the most gifted players of his generation. I saw him play for Swindon ffs.

[David Kelly 1117]

One regret is that I never saw Glenn Hoddle in is prime. For all the boring/weird manager and pundit stuff you forget he was one of the most gifted players of his generation. I saw him play for Swindon ffs.

Aye I was thinking that myself, I have basically no recollection of him at all.

[NJS 3977]

[/size]

Absolutely spot on. I can't think of two centre midfield players who are less alike.

 

I think the Didier Deschamps analogy is absolutely correct too, he was just like him.

 

Thing is before his big injury he and Reid had a Cabaye/Tiote kind of deal where Reid was very much the ball winner and Bracewell the footballer/creator. It was only post injury that he became more defensive. Similar to how Rob Lee went "backwards" in his last couple of years when he couldnt do the running anymore.

[Howmanheyman 26767]

He was by far Sunderland's best player when we bought him, (no big deal to be fair as they were a shit team) and whenever they played well it was down to him, they wouldn't/couldn't give him the contract extension he wanted so KK nipped in and added him to our side. I think those four signings he made at the beginning of the promotion season were just perfect and all added to my belief that Keegan just had a talent for picking the right players by and large. I thought Bracewell was more or less finished when he came but playing for KK obviously gave him another couple of years as we could pass a ball around which suited Bracewell to a tee. £250K fee was a steal for those two years we got from him, he was an important player for us at just the right time in our development as a club. He did have a

career threatening injury courtesy of Billy Whitehurst at SJP and it no doubt took something away from his game as that Everton midfield was very good for the time.

[Dr Gloom 19806]

[/size]

Absolutely spot on. I can't think of two centre midfield players who are less alike.

 

I think the Didier Deschamps analogy is absolutely correct too, he was just like him.

 

Totally different players in their prime

[Dr Gloom 19806]

 

Thing is before his big injury he and Reid had a Cabaye/Tiote kind of deal where Reid was very much the ball winner and Bracewell the footballer/creator. It was only post injury that he became more defensive. Similar to how Rob Lee went "backwards" in his last couple of years when he couldnt do the running anymore.

 

Spot on

[Dr Gloom 19806]

Aye I was thinking that myself, I have basically no recollection of him at all.

 

He was class like. He's another one that should have had way more England caps than he got.

[David Kelly 1117]

I can remember him from Chelsea mainly but I think he was no where near the player he had been by then.

[McFaul 35]

Totally different players in their prime

Similar goalscoring records at all parts of their careers. Daftest comparison toontastic has seen people saying Bracewell and Hoddle were "similar".

 

[Tooj 17]

Wasn't Hoddle massively under appreciated in his prime over here as well?

 

Sure me dad said if he was from the continent teams would've been built around him.

[Dr Gloom 19806]

Stevie, you obviously never saw Bracewell in his prime to compare to him to deschamp - a way dafter comparison to anyone on here that watched football in the 80s. I don't see anyone else backing your argument up on here where others have commented on his passing range and the fact that he was he creator for that successful Everton midfield. Points that I made.

 

 

Edited January 28, 2013 by Dr Gloom

[McFaul 35]

Wasn't Hoddle massively under appreciated in his prime over here as well?

 

Sure me dad said if he was from the continent teams would've been built around him.

He should've had 100 caps + but he was totally unappreciated by Bobby Robson and Ron Greenwood too. He was as good as Gazza. I can't think of many British players who had a bigger impact abroad too. John Charles being an exception.

[McFaul 35]

You obviously never saw Bracewell in his prime to compare to him to deschamp - a way dafter comparison to anyone in here that watched football in the 80s

1 goal in 30 over a 20 year period tells you what he was. He got 3 England caps. He was a good passer of the ball, but he always sat and had no where near the vision of Hoddle or a Gascoigne, and he wasn't a box to box type like Bryan Robson.

[Dr Gloom 19806]

Wasn't Hoddle massively under appreciated in his prime over here as well?

 

Sure me dad said if he was from the continent teams would've been built around him.

 

The Europeans couldn't believe how few caps he got for England. He was world class on the ball. Goes to show how England midfielders went for midfield battlers instead of cultured ball players over the years. Mad to think the likes of Steve hodge, Ray Wilkins and Neil Webb were often picked ahead of him.

 

Ironically Hoddle snubbed le tissier from the World Cup squad for similar reasons.

[Dr Gloom 19806]

1 goal in 30 over a 20 year period tells you what he was. He got 3 England caps. He was a good passer of the ball, but he always sat and had no where near the vision of Hoddle or a Gascoigne, and he wasn't a box to box type like Bryan Robson.

 

I agree with you there - he wasn't a box to box player. But then neither was Hoddle. They both had good range of passing and liked to spray it around though mate, that's a fact.

[McFaul 35]

The Europeans couldn't believe how few caps he got for England. He was world class on the ball. Goes to show how England midfielders went for midfield battlers instead of cultured ball players over the years. Mad to think the likes of Steve hodge, Ray Wilkins and Neil Webb were often picked ahead of him.

 

Ironically Hoddle snubbed le tissier from the World Cup squad for similar reasons.

He snubbed him because he let him down against Italy. He was furious that his brother told the papers that he'd be playing in what was supposed to be a huge tactical surprise for them pre-kick off.

[McFaul 35]

I agree with you there - he wasn't a box to box player. But then neither was Hoddle. They both had good range of passing and liked to spray it around though mate, that's a fact.

Hoddle was a playmaker, he didn't go back and that's why he was seen as a bit of a luxury. Bracewell being the completely different player he was sat more and was more defensively minded.