ChezGiven 0 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 We lost our inside position when Christie was fired. The position you refer to is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26283 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 As stupid as she is vile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I loathe the woman, and disagree with the vast majority of what she's on any subject, including this. But she makes some interesting points I'd not heard elsewhere, probably because people found the whole abhorrent case to be open and shut http://heatst.com/world/jo-coxs-murderer-is-convicted-but-i-stand-by-what-i-said-about-his-prejudiced-trial/ The law should always maintain a certain standard, or we end up stabbing Gaddafi up the arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3193 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I loathe the woman, and disagree with the vast majority of what she's on any subject, including this. But she makes some interesting points I'd not heard elsewhere, probably because people found the whole abhorrent case to be open and shut http://heatst.com/world/jo-coxs-murderer-is-convicted-but-i-stand-by-what-i-said-about-his-prejudiced-trial/ The law should always maintain a certain standard, or we end up stabbing Gaddafi up the arse. I don't think she makes any interesting points at all. There is no evidence the remain side used the case to stop brexit and as a partisan not legally trained in any way I don't take what she says on an alt right website seriously at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26283 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 The case was open and shut. He clearly killed her. His defence did not attempt to offer any evidence that his actions were caused by his mental illness and he was deemed mentally fit to stand trial. But Mensch seems to think that she knows better than those closely involved with the case. The fucking arrogance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I don't think she makes any interesting points at all. There is no evidence the remain side used the case to stop brexit and as a partisan not legally trained in any way I don't take what she says on an alt right website seriously at all. It doesn't matter where the arguments are made or who by. She's quotes from a barrister's blog on the oddities of the court case... http://barristerblogger.com/2016/11/23/footnotes-conviction-thomas-mair/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 ...the barristers blog asks questions and has possible reasons where it does of course, rather than Mensch and her click baiting certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 The case was open and shut. He clearly killed her. His defence did not attempt to offer any evidence that his actions were caused by his mental illness and he was deemed mentally fit to stand trial. But Mensch seems to think that she knows better than those closely involved with the case. The fucking arrogance. She is beyond contempt, fully agree. The Guardian noted that the Daily Mail was the only paper (aside from the FT) not to have this story as it's front page the other day, and also noted that it claimed he killed her because his house was going to be taken off him and given to immigrants. I find that incredible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26283 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 The blog offers nothing to suggest that the trial was unfair, it raises a few oddities but nothing that would alter the verdict. Mensch states that Mair's trial was unfair, despite her supporting blog not doing so. Again she knows better than everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26283 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 She is beyond contempt, fully agree. The Guardian noted that the Daily Mail was the only paper (aside from the FT) not to have this story as it's front page the other day, and also noted that it claimed he killed her because his house was going to be taken off him and given to immigrants. I find that incredible. But they did give coverage to the story. On page fucking thirty. Clearly there was enough news more important than the trial of a murdered MP to fill up the previous 29 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3977 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 She is beyond contempt, fully agree. The Guardian noted that the Daily Mail was the only paper (aside from the FT) not to have this story as it's front page the other day, and also noted that it claimed he killed her because his house was going to be taken off him and given to immigrants. I find that incredible. Effectively blaming her for ignoring his "legitimate" concerns is a new low even for them. Keep saying it loud and proud - anyone who buys the Mail is a cunt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3193 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Nicola says "shove yer Brexit up yer arse!" http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-scottish-parliament-legal-right-block-article-50-a7438246.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26283 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I think the word 'normally' is a clear get out of jail card for the UK government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 How would that scenario even play out though... That'd be it for Scotland in the UK, that's for sure. The hatred would be palpable. Obviously that's what Sturgeon wants of course, so that's a win for her, but it'd be a very strange time for the UK. Would we then have to have another referendum because Scotland was no longer included and what constitutes the UK had changed? This is never going to happen of course, but if Scotland left the union with the parting gift of saving the country, they'd have done us a massive favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 It's almost like they knew they were humouring the jocks when they worded the thing in the first place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 How would that scenario even play out though... That'd be it for Scotland in the UK, that's for sure. The hatred would be palpable. Obviously that's what Sturgeon wants of course, so that's a win for her, but it'd be a very strange time for the UK. Would we then have to have another referendum because Scotland was no longer included and what constitutes the UK had changed? This is never going to happen of course, but if Scotland left the union with the parting gift of saving the country, they'd have done us a massive favour. Scotland wouldn't be in the EU if it left though would it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 No it wouldn't, it'd have to apply and would inevitably be blocked by Spain. But that said, I don't think they'd be able to remain in the UK if they stopped this...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3193 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 No it wouldn't, it'd have to apply and would inevitably be blocked by Spain. But that said, I don't think they'd be able to remain in the UK if they stopped this...? Wouldn't have to reapply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Really? I thought that they would have to. If they don't then great, it really strengthens their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3193 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Really? I thought that they would have to. If they don't then great, it really strengthens their position. If in this case England wants Article 50 to leave the EU and Scotland stops that England could then could say "right fuck off" in which case England has cast Scotland adrift rather than Scotland voting to leave, this process would placate Spain. Also each EU citizen has the right to self determination, there are lots of talks ongoing about this and what it means for each of the likely cessationable states and makes a strong case for continued EU membership opposed to new EU membership. Finally fishing rights, most of the most popular fishing waters are in Scottish hands and these are well fished by Spanish fishing fleets. The Spanish know this and would have to back down or face opposition from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 If in this case England wants Article 50 to leave the EU and Scotland stops that England could then could say "right fuck off" in which case England has cast Scotland adrift rather than Scotland voting to leave, this process would placate Spain. Also each EU citizen has the right to self determination, there are lots of talks ongoing about this and what it means for each of the likely cessationable states and makes a strong case for continued EU membership opposed to new EU membership. Finally fishing rights, most of the most popular fishing waters are in Scottish hands and these are well fished by Spanish fishing fleets. The Spanish know this and would have to back down or face opposition from within. I think you're putting a lot of faith in Spain there, although your first point might swing it. Spain is reverting to a right wing police state. They've just outlawed making fun of the police, royalty, and politicians. In that kind of climate, they're going to protect what they see as their territorial sovereignty, I think, over fishing. That said, if the UK did cast Scotland aside, as you say, maybe that'd do it. Not sure we would do that though, it'd take a fucking brave politician... I suppose it might go to a referendum - it'd be a nailed on outcome then. Or the EU just brings them straight in, past Spain - that's also possible, but might well lead to Spain quitting the union in the longer term. I think whatever course of action comes up from this, it'd have to have Spain's full backing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3193 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 I think you're putting a lot of faith in Spain there, although your first point might swing it. Spain is reverting to a right wing police state. They've just outlawed making fun of the police, royalty, and politicians. In that kind of climate, they're going to protect what they see as their territorial sovereignty, I think, over fishing. That said, if the UK did cast Scotland aside, as you say, maybe that'd do it. Not sure we would do that though, it'd take a fucking brave politician... I suppose it might go to a referendum - it'd be a nailed on outcome then. Or the EU just brings them straight in, past Spain - that's also possible, but might well lead to Spain quitting the union in the longer term. I think whatever course of action comes up from this, it'd have to have Spain's full backing. Can Spain afford to quit the union? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14031 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 In any case, if it wanted to an independent Scotland could presumably continue as a de facto EU member in all but name until the situation was resolved. An Andrex-soft Jockxit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 Can Spain afford to quit the union? That's a fair comment, but in a landscape that just dealt us Brexit and Trump, I'm not sure that the answer is as much of a given as it would have been 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 In any case, if it wanted to an independent Scotland could presumably continue as a de facto EU member in all but name until the situation was resolved. An Andrex-soft Jockxit. Quite possibly. If Sturgeon manages to prevent Article 50 being triggered (I'd say that this is a remote chance at best, as No. 10 will just ride roughshod over her if it has to) then I could see the union falling apart as London looks to fulfil Brexit by jettisoning Scotland. Although that said, is there really a mandate or the political will for anything approaching the amount of turbulence that would happen were all this to come to pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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