ewerk 26306 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, zerosum said: So you have delved into the specifics of possible new business around the globe that could be discovered over the next 10 years if we left the EU? What I was saying is, yeah it will be tough.. and maybe never the same. But it's not the end like many try to make us think. 30% of our GDP is based on exports. When we leave without a trade deal that causes massive problems for those exports. The idea that we can do better deals by ourselves than as part of a massive trading bloc is a nonsense. We will recover over time but probably not to the level we were at. Economically speaking there is no upside to Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 So you haven't delved into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17751 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 7 minutes ago, zerosum said: So you have delved into the specifics of possible new business around the globe that could be discovered over the next 10 years if we left the EU? What I was saying is, yeah it will be tough.. and maybe never the same. But it's not the end like many try to make us think. Well, all that information is out there, if you believe qualified experts (specifically the civil service, economists, and academics). An FTA with the US might boost trade 0.3% of GDP if we accept reduced standards. We will lose more than 20 times that though by leaving the single market. And in the NE, where we have an EU surplus, we could lose 18% of GDP, more than fifty times the increased trade with the US. These figures are not disputed apart from by Patrick Minford, who is essentially insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 It's not ideal I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26306 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, zerosum said: So you haven't delved into it. No but I've asked the question of several Brexiters and not received an answer. There is no evidence of a wealth of trade deals possible that would boost our economy from where it is. I can't prove the impossible. Surely this is something you should have thought about before the vote? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17751 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, zerosum said: It's not ideal I agree. It's unprecedented, we are literally giving ourselves huge sanctions. The beauty of the single market is it essentially acts as an extended domestic market. It's unique and rightly envied worldwide. We're basically saying screw this, let's reduce our market by a factor of five. This is bad enough. But then think about the political damage and the very likely effect it will have splitting the union. The democratic deficit of NI and Scotland being forced out against their will. It doesn't make any sense on any level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, zerosum said: So you haven't delved into it. Neither have you though. And you're the ones who really need to be proving that this is going to work, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17751 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I've read most the reports. It just requires a bit of technical knowledge. They are very concerning, especially for this part of the UK. And for the NHS. There's been no plausible counter. No upside. None whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19818 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 at least the level of discourse hasn't sunk into the gutter https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46789601 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26306 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, zerosum said: It won't be bad forever. But it will be bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 26 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: at least the level of discourse hasn't sunk into the gutter https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46789601 Holy fucking hell. Fuck this country man, just fuck it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19818 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 it's the twitter-fication of politics. social media nutjobs spilling into real life and trying to shout down opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19818 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 i wonder what emboldened them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Absolutely that's what it is. The culture war has gone mainstream. I'm just gonna say I predicted the shit out of that about 2 years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/jan/08/brexit-latest-news-no-deal-amendment-liam-fox-says-backing-amendment-designed-to-make-no-deal-harder-would-be-irresponsible-politics-live Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26306 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Hopefully the first defeat of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 This effectively means what? Weakens May's hand I guess in her 'My deal or No Deal' gambit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, Rayvin said: This effectively means what? Weakens May's hand I guess in her 'My deal or No Deal' gambit. Basically aye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 "And here are the three Labour MPs who voted with the government against amendment 7. Ronnie Campbell Kate Hoey Graham Stringer" Fucking mongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26306 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: This effectively means what? Weakens May's hand I guess in her 'My deal or No Deal' gambit. Weakens her powers to spend money on no deal. Obviously it’d be reversed in the event of no deal but it’s a shot across the bows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9201 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 17 hours ago, Alex said: My biggest gripe with politics in this country though generally is probably the FPTP system which seems increasingly outdated and means most general elections are decided by those bastard floating voters in the more marginal seats in the midlands (I think that’s the usual trend anyway). When you analyse it, it’s not remotely democratic but because it’s worked in the past and because it continues to suit the two main parties it prevails. On the other hand, don't go for proportional representation, because it delivers a much worse outcome, with fascists, homophobes, and religious and other general nut jobs holding the balance of power. See Australia for (too) many examples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26306 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Uh, have you seen who the Tories confidence and supply partner is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26306 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-46807083 Pie in the sky stuff yet again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30389 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 6 hours ago, RobinRobin said: On the other hand, don't go for proportional representation, because it delivers a much worse outcome, with fascists, homophobes, and religious and other general nut jobs holding the balance of power. See Australia for (too) many examples Sounds like the DUP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26306 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Seems like a sensible move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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