Gemmill 34335 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Him and Priti Patel are both children of immigrants that are happy blocking future immigrants from entering the country, and casting out some that are already here. They're well in with Johnson with craic like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Gemmill said: I'll confess to being slightly concerned by this insistence that we're still going out on the 31st whatever happens. It feels like they're going to do something genuinely mental next month. How can there be anyone but the ERG left if they try to pull something like that though? I don't believe that there is a majority left in that party that will stand by and let Johnson try and ignore the law. Got to agree with this, I think there’s another twist in this from Boris. But as far as I can tell any twist from here is going to be mental and cause an uproar, hence Rudd jumping over the edge now. Pact with Farage is my best guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26229 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 I think you’re all giving him too much credit. He’s an oaf who’s just repeating the same line over and over. This idea that Cummings is a mastermind holds about as much water as Mike Ashley being a football genius. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14574 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Cummins, by Carol Cadwalladr, the bravest journalist in Britain... https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/smash-and-grab-dominic-cummings-democracy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14574 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, zerosum said: Got to agree with this, I think there’s another twist in this from Boris. But as far as I can tell any twist from here is going to be mental and cause an uproar, hence Rudd jumping over the edge now. Pact with Farage is my best guess. I hear this quite a lot. Would that just entail the Brexit Party not running candidates in certain seats at a GE or just not putting any up at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Farage wants a clear run at the north apparently. We're not out of the woods on this yet I fear, although if many more Tory MPs resign the whip we might get to a point where a coalition government can usurp the Tories. They're own to 288 MPs, with Labour + SNP at 283. I mean, throw in the LibDems and you've got them, but presumably we're waiting to see if we can reduce the number of parties involved or they've just concluded that this isn't the way to do things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/07/campaigners-second-eu-referendum-plan-mass-tactical-vote People's vote campaign is stepping up for tactical voting in a GE. If Labour can solidly back a people's vote, maybe we can make something work between Lib Dems and them. Honestly I think this is going to be brutal and polarising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 17 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: I hear this quite a lot. Would that just entail the Brexit Party not running candidates in certain seats at a GE or just not putting any up at all? I assume (guess) he would not run candidates at certain seats Tory’s want to target . Seen this in google news. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/07/100-per-cent-sincere-offering-non-aggressive-pact-tories/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 This is going to be messy tbh. Honestly I don't think the Tories have the numbers to make this work even with a Brexit Party pact. I mean for all the Daily Mail is exciting itself over the current polls, it's basically saying the following: Tories + Brexit Party (+DUP) = 48% Labour + Lib Dems = 40% Therefore, Brexit. Ignoring the SNP, Greens, Independents and Plaid, all of whom will vote down No Deal. So that's 52:48 in favour of the remainers and of course the potential that the DUP simply won't back No Deal because it will break up the union, if they ever actually manage to get that through their heads. So back to a hung parliament, pretty much. A general election will solve nothing unless the Tories collapse in the process. Labour aren't going to collapse any further, that's for sure. In fact I think it likely they will get a boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 As an aside, we're basically going to have to choose between the super rich, disaster capitalist, incompetent and quite possibly racist establishment, or the benign but indifferent and out of touch conventional establishment. At some point, seriously, can we just try the fucking left? I mean Sweden and Norway look pretty fucking stable to me, compared to this utter shitshow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 (edited) Swedish parties have similar problems to here with a rise in people against immigration, Immigration scored as one of the top issues in the 2014 and 2018 Swedish elections. The Sweden Democrats, who first joined Parliament in 2010, received more than 13 percent of the national vote in 2014, making it the third-largest political party. It improved on that performance in 2018, its 17.6 percent national share exceeded in some counties and municipalities. It has become impossible for either of the two traditional blocs to form majority governments, since neither bloc wants to govern with the support of the Sweden Democrats. This new situation may prompt a structural change to Swedish parliamentarianism. Predictably, Prime Minister Stefan Löfven lost the parliamentary vote of confidence following the 2018 elections. However, with no contender able to garner enough votes to become the new Prime Minister outright, a caretaker government was still in place at this writing, with the various parties struggling three months after the election to establish a ruling coalition that would not require support of the Sweden Democrats. Edited September 8, 2019 by zerosum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30336 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Gemmill said: I'll confess to being slightly concerned by this insistence that we're still going out on the 31st whatever happens. It feels like they're going to do something genuinely mental next month. How can there be anyone but the ERG left if they try to pull something like that though? I don't believe that there is a majority left in that party that will stand by and let Johnson try and ignore the law. They might have something up their sleeve but equally you could imagine Johnson just saying we’re definitely coming out on that date because that’s been his position all along and there’s not a lot else he can say at this point. He’s winged it his whole life so it’s not like he should behave any different now he’s way out of his depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 There’s definitely another twist in this from Boris. Javid saying we will have to wait and see what happens. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49626693/brexit-sajid-javid-on-whether-government-will-break-new-brexit-law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30336 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Or he’s not being honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26229 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, zerosum said: There’s definitely another twist in this from Boris. Javid saying we will have to wait and see what happens. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49626693/brexit-sajid-javid-on-whether-government-will-break-new-brexit-law That’s exactly what you’d say when you have no plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Alex said: Or he’s not being honest true enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 ”Planning" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 3 hours ago, zerosum said: There’s definitely another twist in this from Boris. Javid saying we will have to wait and see what happens. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-49626693/brexit-sajid-javid-on-whether-government-will-break-new-brexit-law I agree with you. There's too much time left for there not to be at least one more chaotic occurrence thrown into the mix. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14574 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Err... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerosum 234 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 I don’t think that bloke likes democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 19 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Err... Seems reasonable to me - and also seems like the way we're heading. They're forcing us to have a GE at the very least - and we seem certain to have one, just after the extension is granted. I think this is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, zerosum said: I don’t think that bloke likes democracy. How is what he is proposing, undemocratic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17722 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 Verhofstadt is an unashamed federalist. As am I and I believe @Rayvin is. That's not being undemocratic. Brexiters hate the veto, yet they also hate QMV. They moan about the lack of democracy in the EU, but hate the idea of more democracy (e.g. a directly elected president). Nothing will satisfy them. Anyway, he is simply making the point that without the hindrance of the UK, the EU will have the opportunity to become more efficient and equitable. We could have had associate status, but May pissed on that idea 3 years ago. Lets see how well we fare alone against the 3 superpowers in yhe world, one of them which we will share a land border with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17722 Posted September 8, 2019 Share Posted September 8, 2019 2 hours ago, Rayvin said: Seems reasonable to me - and also seems like the way we're heading. They're forcing us to have a GE at the very least - and we seem certain to have one, just after the extension is granted. I think this is fine. The EU don't want to be seen as being the ones throwing us out it seems. Ccontrolling the narrative as well as everything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9192 Posted September 9, 2019 Share Posted September 9, 2019 On 9/7/2019 at 16:46, Rayvin said: The former Conservative leader Iain Duncan Smith encouraged Mr Johnson to break the law, saying he would be seen as a Brexit “martyr” if judges opted to put him jail for breaching parliament’s terms. ?! I just love how some people always want someone else to be a martyr for the cause, but are unwilling to be one themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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