Rayvin 4964 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 If he was a brave man, I'd agree with you - but I really don't think he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14577 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 22 minutes ago, Renton said: Thing is, the deal really is so shit it might not be better than no deal. The ratchet clause does tie us to the EU in a way is demonstrably impacting on UK sovereignty. But incredibly we are out of the CU and SM so will miss out on nearly all the benefits. It's actually difficult to imagine negotiating a worse deal. Now the NI issue is resolved, it opens up the way for a US deal. I think he will go for no deal personally, and blame the EU. He just doesn't want to be seen to be the one who quits negotiations first. Â Â Id heard the term "ratchet clause" without paying too much attention...is this an accurate description?... Â Â As the EU develops its rulebook on working conditions or the environment, for example, it is seeking a mechanism to ensure that European businesses are not left at an economic disadvantage if Britain fails to step up its own regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26279 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Aye, it's a nonsense IMO. A non-regression agreement is fine but to tell the UK that they have to keep up with changes in EU environmental and working conditions is pushing it too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:  Id heard the term "ratchet clause" without paying too much attention...is this an accurate description?...   As the EU develops its rulebook on working conditions or the environment, for example, it is seeking a mechanism to ensure that European businesses are not left at an economic disadvantage if Britain fails to step up its own regulations.  Aye, basically ties us to LPF going forward and negates any point of Brexit. Having just seen the EU's no deal contingency plans they are going to tie us to LPF or completely freeze us out anyway. Oh, and continued access to fishing. They are playing proper hardball now. Its like they have all the cards, who knew?  Edited December 10, 2020 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: Aye, it's a nonsense IMO. A non-regression agreement is fine but to tell the UK that they have to keep up with changes in EU environmental and working conditions is pushing it too far.  They can ask for what they want. Why should they accept being undercut in the future if they want to develop their environmental policies and social welfare? The reality is we are going to find out what it's like to play with the big boys, and it won't be pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Â 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Gauke pretty much nails it here, government logic in action. Â Â Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3598 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/brexit-no-deal-brussels-eu-customs-union-b219100.html  The country is turbofucked when George Osborne is the voice of reason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Did anyone here ever play D&D or am I the only nerd? Anyway, Osborne would be Lawful Evil, probably with N intelligence of 14ish. Johnson is Chaotic Evil with an intelligence of 7 or 8. The former is preferable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 And I got stick for Magic the Gathering  6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Renton said: Thing is, the deal really is so shit it might not be better than no deal. The ratchet clause does tie us to the EU in a way is demonstrably impacting on UK sovereignty. But incredibly we are out of the CU and SM so will miss out on nearly all the benefits. It's actually difficult to imagine negotiating a worse deal. Now the NI issue is resolved, it opens up the way for a US deal. I think he will go for no deal personally, and blame the EU. He just doesn't want to be seen to be the one who quits negotiations first. Â Â Looking like you may well be right then, he's just now warned of a strong possibility of No Deal. I actually cannot wait for this to be over now, whatever happens. His inevitable resignation can't be far off once this is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19806 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, Renton said: Did anyone here ever play D&D or am I the only nerd? Anyway, Osborne would be Lawful Evil, probably with N intelligence of 14ish. Johnson is Chaotic Evil with an intelligence of 7 or 8. The former is preferable.  2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38730 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 20 minutes ago, Rayvin said: And I got stick for Magic the Gathering   That’s like Gary Glitter criticising Jimmy Savile.  6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 I know but when you're in these communities you effectively have "lobster syndrome"- if one of you is somehow about to emerge unscathed from a pot of boiling water/the righteous judgement of your peers,  you pull the fucker back in because you'd prefer to see everyone suffer rather than anyone escape 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Have just seen this explanation of an "Australia style deal" in the Guardian:  Downing Street started using the term at the beginning of the year as a more palatable shorthand for a no-deal. The EU does not have a free-trade deal with Australia, although they are in negotiations. The two sides operate mainly on World Trade Organization (WTO) rules, with huge tariffs on imports and exports. It would be more accurate to describe the outcome that would be secured by a no-deal as an Afghanistan-style arrangement, given the lack of formal cooperation in that trading relationship. This is because the EU does have a few agreements in place with Australia that it would not have with the UK in the event of a failure of the trade and security negotiations. These include an agreement on the transfer of EU passenger name records to Australian border authorities to help combat crime and terrorism and an agreement on the mutual recognition of conformity assessments, so that a product tested to EU standards in Australia is regarded as compliant, eliminating the need for duplicative testing when it is imported.  I am definitely going to refer to it as an Afghanistan style deal going forward  1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6432 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 52 minutes ago, Rayvin said: And I got stick for Magic the Gathering  I play both tbh. 🤓 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12759 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 FannyShy, more like. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14031 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Osborne may be broadly right about where we are now, but him and the best PM of CT's lunchtime laid all the groundwork for it by casually assuming they'd win a referendum on maintaining a status quo they'd spent years poising through austerity, so he can take his weirdo power stance and bog orf. Â 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3598 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Meenzer said: Osborne may be broadly right about where we are now, but him and the best PM of CT's lunchtime laid all the groundwork for it by casually assuming they'd win a referendum on maintaining a status quo they'd spent years poising through austerity, so he can take his weirdo power stance and bog orf.  Please don't think I was on any way showing any level of support for the cunt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26279 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 spongebob TORYpants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6432 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said: FannyShy, more like. Agreed these days. Something has to fill the yawning chasm left by drugs, sex, football and drugs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14031 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said: Please don't think I was on any way showing any level of support for the cunt  Oh no, don't worry. My apologies for raising such a hideous prospect even accidentally  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26279 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 6 hours ago, Renton said:  They can ask for what they want. Why should they accept being undercut in the future if they want to develop their environmental policies and social welfare? The reality is we are going to find out what it's like to play with the big boys, and it won't be pretty. The EU are overreaching. They may be creating more wriggleroom for themselves but they aren’t dealing with rational actors here. It isn’t for them to save us from ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38730 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Fair point, 18 minutes ago, trophyshy said: Agreed these days. Something has to fill the yawning chasm left by drugs, sex, football and drugs. You need to take up Shedding. It’s a whole new world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17744 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, ewerk said: The EU are overreaching. They may be creating more wriggleroom for themselves but they aren’t dealing with rational actors here. It isn’t for them to save us from ourselves.  Maybe they are perfectly happy with no deal? Also its the sovereign nations of the EU, France in particular, that are driving this, not the commission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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