Renton 17748 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Dear me, didn't take you long to revert to type. What's that supposed to mean? You can't just dismiss other people's concerns and not be taken to task for it. You won't be affected by these changes. Other people will, that's pretty much a fact. And you definitely lack empathy. But fair enough, I'll try and make it less personal. So a serious question for you. Do you really believe our employment laws will be replaced by equal or more favourable laws under the incoming government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3977 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Phew, thanks CT, I was worried by the opinion of my professional law friend then for a bit, but you've put my mind at rest. [emoji38] The point is, essentially most employment and health and safety law is based on EU law. Once we're out, it may no longer apply, the protections will disappear overnight. Now you obviously have faith that the new leaders of the conservatives, who are even more right wing than their predecessors, will replace these statutes. Curiously, I don't. As a self employed minicab driver, I concede you won't be personally affected much. Given your past history, I really don't expect you to care much about the welfare of others either. That video from that EU law professor I posted suggested the laws won't be dropped overnight - in fact lawyers will be in for a boom as it will take a couple of years to disentangle EU law from British law - of course the lack of any plan means we'll have to bear the cost of this. In fact I might be wrong but nobody has mentioned the practical costs of the process at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 What's required now is that Labour get their act together so that we all have a good choice of policies come the next election. No, you aren't pinning this on Labour. This is on the Tories. They did this. They have to get their act together. You're commenting as if you're hoping that Labour are somehow going to sweep in and stop all the shit working rights cuts and general impoverishment that the Tories are now capable of inflicting without the EU. That suggests you're worried. Labour are not going to get their act together CT, and so they aren't going to save us. You voted the Tories, you voted no EU, that's what you'll get. You don't get to scapegoat Labour by saying 'well I expected them to get their shit together so I can't be held responsible for this', which is what you're setting up for saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19817 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 CT voted out didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 CT voted out didn't he? Is that directed at my post? I said he 'voted no EU'. Not great English in truth, but yeah, he voted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 3659 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 .... The point is, essentially most employment and health and safety law is based on EU law... Our H&S law is tied to European legislation extremely tightly, the conservatives have already hamstrung the HSE by cutting its budget and making it make its own money, so rather than focus on enforcement of law they are concentrating on FFI to pay for themselves. The cutting of budgets means visits by HSE inspectors have fallen year on year under the conservatives. All changes to H&S legislation will be done under he guise of cutting "red tape" and improving productivity, but I and many other H&S professionals are worried that this will come at the cost of worker safeguards and lead to a more dangerous place for workers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13840 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Idiot (regards CT voting out) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19817 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 How a cautious nation came to tear down the political temple Britain will be poorer at home and diminished internationally. It marks a retreat from the world Philip Stephens Financial capitalism survived the 2008 global crash. Liberal democracy has not fared so well. There is a connection. Political elites are under pressure everywhere in the west. Donald Trump is a candidate for US president. Marine Le Pen is bidding for Frances Élysée Palace. But who would have thought pragmatic, moderate, incrementalist Britain would tear down the political temple? This weeks referendum result was a revolt against the status quo with consequences, national and international, as profound as anything seen in postwar Europe. You can cite perhaps half-a-dozen explanations as to why the once-phlegmatic British voted against their own economic interests by quitting the EU. British exceptionalism, migration, a scandalously duplicitous Leave campaign, stagnant incomes and post-crash austerity are all on the list. But the thread through it all was deep disgruntlement with a political and economic system that is seen as rigged against the hard-working classes. It was always clear that the referendum would fracture the Conservative party. But it was won by the outs only because millions of erstwhile Labour supporters deserted their own leftist leadership for the anti-immigrant xenophobia peddled by the United Kingdom Independence party. For decades politics was a game of turn and turnabout among the long established parties of centre-right and centre-left. Now, Conservatives and Labour in Britain, and Christian and Social Democrats on the European continent have lost control. Brexit will leave Britain poorer at home and diminished on the international stage. It marks a retreat from the world. The leaving of one union could lead to the break-up of another if Nicola Sturgeon, Scotlands first minister, presses ahead with her plan for another independence referendum. A flight of foreign capital and businesses from the UK may tip the economy into recession. The leavers, led by the flamboyantly evasive Boris Johnson, have no plans to cope with any of this. Mr Johnson has not thought beyond an all-consuming ambition to replace David Cameron as prime minister. He has failed to offer a serious prospectus for the simple reason that, beyond some nostalgic nonsense about reconquering the world, he has no idea about what comes next. For what it is worth, the harsh truth is that the British government will spend the next five to 10 years in the costly business of disentangling its affairs from Brussels. Since 2008 the unfairnesses have been amplified by austerity: the wealthiest one per cent have been barely touched Friends and allies will have little sympathy. After surviving the twin crises centred on the euro and migration, Germanys Angela Merkel and Frances François Hollande will not thank Britain for adding a third. Perfidious Albion has always been an awkward partner, but the Union will be weaker for the departure of such an important state. Nor can Mr Camerons successor look to Washington for comfort. US President Barack Obama could not have been more candid that a leave vote would represent self-demotion in the contest for influence in the US capital. The special relationship is a description loaded more with symbolism than substance. Brexit will strip it of both. All this as the west is challenged by a revanchist Russia, by chaos and terrorism in the Middle East and uncontrolled migration. Irritated as they are with Britain, these other leaders would do well to study carefully the forces at work in the referendum campaign. If a nation as innately cautious as Britain can tear up in the course of a single day foreign and economic policies that have been crafted over half a century, who can dare rule out an electoral earthquake propelling Mr Trump into the White House or Ms Le Pen into the Élysée What Americans call the takeaway from the referendum can be summarised in one short phrase: globalisation is not working. Big business has become bad political news. Yes, of course one can produce endless statistics showing how open global markets are a stimulus to growth and prosperity. But as true as they are, these are abstract, aggregate figures. They do not reflect the experience of the majority. For a decade or so the badly skewed distribution of the gains from globalisation and widespread tax-evasion on the part of big business were camouflaged by buoyant economic growth. Since 2008 the unfairnesses have been amplified by austerity: the wealthiest one per cent have been barely touched. Capitalism needed saving, but in bailing out the financial institutions with taxpayers money, governments transferred the stresses from markets to politics. A return to economic growth would relieve some of the pressure. Europe in particular must understand just how politically corrosive slavish devotion to fiscal targets has become. But the politicians also must confront the excesses. If they want to save liberal democracy, they will have to reform capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19817 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Is that directed at my post? I said he 'voted no EU'. Not great English in truth, but yeah, he voted out. My bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 "planning" :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 What's that supposed to mean? You can't just dismiss other people's concerns and not be taken to task for it. You won't be affected by these changes. Other people will, that's pretty much a fact. And you definitely lack empathy. But fair enough, I'll try and make it less personal. So a serious question for you. Do you really believe our employment laws will be replaced by equal or more favourable laws under the incoming government? 1. I think most of the important employment laws will just stay the same / be adopted. 2. More importantly, I think our country has a decent track record of late of moving forward above and beyond Europe on these sort of things, even the conservatives. Just look at stuff like same sex marriage or free child care etc. 3. I know labour have had a tough time (bad leaders), but I honestly believe getting the right person in will make a massive difference. A strong opposition prevents any party drifting too far one way or the other. I would love Labour to appoint Dan Jarvis or similar, get back to centre left, unite and start being a positive opposition that has good policies and doesn't just snipe at everything. That's how they'll get back into power. The whole political class has been arrogant for too long relying on tit for tat such as "they haven't built enough houses", bla bla bla. Or when anything important is raised..." Well we need to have a serious debate about that".. Bla bla bla. I 100% believe that there is a great opportunity here to really take this country forward and that people like Cameron and others have misread the mood, expecting the status quo and the same old same old. While you could point to the thickos who the media dwell on who voted leave, I could also point to the fear brigade who went with better safe than sorry. I feel very excited about our outlook, a bit like I did when Blair and Brown breezed in. I just hope the hysteria (not directed at you), passes quickly and our parties and politicians start making the most of it. I also hope that there will be a good cross party agreement / cooperation put in place for coming negotiations. I also hope Farage is nowhere near any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19817 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Why the North will regret voting Brexit http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/why-the-north-of-england-will-regret-voting-for-brexit-a7101321.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christmas Tree 3997 Posted June 25, 2016 Author Share Posted June 25, 2016 No, you aren't pinning this on Labour. This is on the Tories. They did this. They have to get their act together. You're commenting as if you're hoping that Labour are somehow going to sweep in and stop all the shit working rights cuts and general impoverishment that the Tories are now capable of inflicting without the EU. That suggests you're worried. Labour are not going to get their act together CT, and so they aren't going to save us. You voted the Tories, you voted no EU, that's what you'll get. You don't get to scapegoat Labour by saying 'well I expected them to get their shit together so I can't be held responsible for this', which is what you're setting up for saying. None of that I'm afraid I would rather have a good Tory government than a good Labour one and I have ZERO worries about working rights going down the swanny. Quite the opposite actually. However I do think we are a better political country when we have a strong opposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 CT absolutely desperate for Labour to save us is something I'm taking some grim pleasure in. As I just said, Labour failing to get their act together doesn't make the chaos and economic devastation of our country, for absolutely nothing, any less your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19817 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 An outlook most people on here find depressing or troubling excites CT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) One of the Brexit MEPs has just said that Freedom of Movement will likely remain in place. This was all for absolutely nothing. We're taking ourselves out of Europe, and then signing up to all the same stuff we were already doing, just so that the working class can give the government a shoeing. No one wants this, apart from old people who still believe in the Empire - and apparently CT. The most annoying thing about this by far in fact, is that if we could do it again now, Remain would probably win by a landslide. This is the biggest fuck up. Edited June 25, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13840 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 It's almost as if the majority of the LEAVE voters were a bunch of clueless, cowardly racists who had no idea of the economic implications of the vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19817 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Just saw this on FB and had to laugh. You'd cry otherwise So. To summarise: The pound hits a 31 year low (I was 10 back then). £180bn has been wiped off the FTSE. The two together mean we are no longer the world's 5th largest economy. We just fell behind France. Housebuilding firms lost 40% of their value this morning. Homes will lose £20,000 of their value by the end of the year. Bank shares are down 30%. We still own chunks of them. Morgan Stanley are preparing to move 2000 jobs out of the city. The cap on energy company prices has been cancelled. We import electricity through undersea cables from France and the Netherlands and gas from Norway. Prices are rising. Small businesses are getting notices from overseas suppliers, cancelling quotes and putting trade on hold. Posts from various friends around the UK say projects are being cancelled, and EU funding pulled. Cornwall - which voted to leave - is demanding that the UK match the £60m a year the EU used to give them. Standard & Poor are reviewing our country's AAA credit rating as they think we're going back into recession. Gibraltar voted Remain. Spain wants joint control. Scotland is moving towards a second referendum and independence. Northern Ireland is moving towards unification. London is talking about city state status. The United Kingdom is almost certainly breaking up. Cameron has quit. He hasn't invoked Article 50. Johnson is saying he can't see any reason to invoke it. The other EU countries are saying we can't delay that move. The Leave campaign have backtracked on their 'more money for the NHS' promise and on capping immigration. Got our country back, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19817 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Some of that out of date. But still, what a cluster fuck. And yet we all knew this was coming and still voted to leave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13840 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Also our Universities have lost an absolute fortune in Research funding, excellent. Maybe the Tories can put up tuition fees a few more times? So they'll drop down the rankings, thus less foreign students & less money. Whey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Some of that out of date. But still, what a cluster fuck. And yet we all knew this was coming and still voted to leave Those at the bottom voted leave because they don't give a shit about that stuff. Apparently, 'now we can all feel what they feel'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34425 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 1. I think most of the important employment laws will just stay the same / be adopted. 2. More importantly, I think our country has a decent track record of late of moving forward above and beyond Europe on these sort of things, even the conservatives. Just look at stuff like same sex marriage or free child care etc. 3. I know labour have had a tough time (bad leaders), but I honestly believe getting the right person in will make a massive difference. A strong opposition prevents any party drifting too far one way or the other. I would love Labour to appoint Dan Jarvis or similar, get back to centre left, unite and start being a positive opposition that has good policies and doesn't just snipe at everything. That's how they'll get back into power. The whole political class has been arrogant for too long relying on tit for tat such as "they haven't built enough houses", bla bla bla. Or when anything important is raised..." Well we need to have a serious debate about that".. Bla bla bla. I 100% believe that there is a great opportunity here to really take this country forward and that people like Cameron and others have misread the mood, expecting the status quo and the same old same old. While you could point to the thickos who the media dwell on who voted leave, I could also point to the fear brigade who went with better safe than sorry. I feel very excited about our outlook, a bit like I did when Blair and Brown breezed in. I just hope the hysteria (not directed at you), passes quickly and our parties and politicians start making the most of it. I also hope that there will be a good cross party agreement / cooperation put in place for coming negotiations. I also hope Farage is nowhere near any of it. Final piece of the jigsaw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3977 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 Those at the bottom voted leave because they don't give a shit about that stuff. Apparently, 'now we can all feel what they feel'. There was an horrifically ugly fat charver on my local news in Clacton which has that ukip mp , saying she'd voted leave because "immigrants". The interviewer asked if she was concerned about job losses (presumably to keep it simple). Her reply was "Nah, we'll muddle through". Hate to say it but people like that deserve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17748 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 (edited) Those at the bottom voted leave because they don't give a shit about that stuff. Apparently, 'now we can all feel what they feel'. There's some truth in that I think. Just nearly fell asleep during Jeremy Corbyn's speech, not sure what his point was. Of more interest was Nicola sturgeon's speech. Scotland are looking at options to stay in the EU. Personally I think for political reasons the EU will be very keen to adopt Scotland. This will lead to an early referendum so they don't have to leave in the first place. The reality is we will have an international border 60 miles from Newcastle with a pro European competitive country just beyond. Great. Oh, and the news from Berlin isn't good. We're going to get punished for sure. Edited June 25, 2016 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted June 25, 2016 Share Posted June 25, 2016 http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/sunderland-to-become-futuristic-metropolis-by-2018-20160625109816 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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