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Has this been posted in here already?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/remain-reform-wishful-thinking-left-vote-leave

 

What do people make of it?

Me personally, I think it's an absolute shit opinion piece in the context of the referendum. We are probably the most right leaning country in the EU, and he hasn't taken into account the alternatives for us. The rest is interesting, but there is more urgent stuff on the agenda. Edited by Renton

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Cheers, over 2 million signatures now. Worth a chance, just to give the vast majority of sensible MPs a viable reason for another referendum. With some truths rectified. For instance, can anyone seriously believe the fucking cheek of Farage admitting the headline figure of the Leave campaign, that we spend 350M quid a week on the EU, was a blatant lie? The toerag admitted it, with a smug grin, just 30 MINUTES after the Leave win. He should be in prison. In previous histories, he'd have been hung.

Probably won't effect anything but all we can do today. You're right, Farage should be arrested for fraud and hijacking blue collar misery for his unhinged purposes. People are already voting with there feet.. who wants to squelch around the world's largest open air prison with a bunch of obese semi literates?

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Brexit is Only the Latest Proof of the Insularity and Failure of Western Establishment Institutions

Glenn Greenwald

June 25 2016, 4:48 p.m.

 

THE DECISION BY UK VOTERS to leave the EU is such a glaring repudiation of the wisdom and relevance of elite political and media institutions that for once their failures have become a prominent part of the storyline. Media reaction to the Brexit vote falls into two general categories: (1) earnest, candid attempts to understand what motivated voters to make this choice, even if that means indicting ones own establishment circles, and (2) petulant, self-serving, simple-minded attacks on disobedient pro-leave voters for being primitive, xenophobic bigots (and stupid to boot), all to evade any reckoning with their own responsibility. Virtually every reaction that falls into the former category emphasizes the profound failures of western establishment factions; these institutions have spawned pervasive misery and inequality, only to spew condescending scorn at their victims when they object.

 

The Los Angeles Times Vincent Bevins, in an outstanding and concise analysis, wrote that both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for thirty years; in particular, since the 1980s the elites in rich countries have overplayed their hand, taking all the gains for themselves and just covering their ears when anyone else talks, and now they are watching in horror as voters revolt. The British journalist Tom Ewing, in a comprehensive Brexit explanation, said the same dynamic driving the UK vote prevails in Europe and North America as well: the arrogance of neoliberal elites in constructing a politics designed to sideline and work around democracy while leaving democracy formally intact.

 

In an interview with The New Statesman, the political philosopher Michael Sandel also said that the dynamics driving the pro-Brexit sentiment were now dominant throughout the west generally: a large constituency of working-class voters feel that not only has the economy left them behind, but so has the culture, that the sources of their dignity, the dignity of labour, have been eroded and mocked by developments with globalisation, the rise of finance, the attention that is lavished by parties across the political spectrum on economic and financial elites, the technocratic emphasis of the established political parties. After the market-venerating radicalism of Reagan and Thatcher, he said, the centre left Blair and Clinton and various European parties managed to regain political office but failed to reimagine the mission and purpose of social democracy, which ­became empty and obsolete.

 

Three Guardian writers sounded similar themes about elite media ignorance, stemming from their homogeneity and detachment from the citizenry. John Harris quoted a Manchester voter as explaining that if youve got money, you vote in. If you havent got money, you vote out, and Harris added: most of the media . . . failed to see this coming. . . . The alienation of the people charged with documenting the national mood from the people who actually define it is one of the ruptures that has led to this moment. Gary Younge similarly denounced a section of the London-based commentariat [that] anthropologised the British working class as though they were a lesser evolved breed from distant parts, all too often portraying them as bigots who did not know what was good for them. Ian Jacks article was headlined In this Brexit vote, the poor turned on an elite who ignored them, and he described how gradually the sight of empty towns and shuttered shops became normalised or forgotten. Headlines like this one from The Guardian in 2014 were prescient but largely ignored:

 

 

Though there were some exceptions, establishment political and media elites in the UK were vehemently united against Brexit, but their decreed wisdom was ignored, even scorned. That has happened time and again. As their fundamental failures become more evident to all, these elites have lost credibility, lost influence, and lost the ability to dictate outcomes.

 

Just last year in the UK, Labour members chose someone to lead Tony Blairs party the authentically left-wing Jeremy Corbyn who could not have been more intensely despised and patronized by almost every leading light of the British media and political class. In the U.S., the joyful rejection by Trump voters of the collective wisdom of the conservative establishment evidenced the same contempt for elite consensus. The enthusiastic and sustained rallying, especially by young voters, against beloved-by-the-establishment Hillary Clinton in favor of a 74-year-old socialist taken seriously by almost no DC elites reflected the same dynamic. Elite denunciations of the right-wing parties of Europe fall on deaf ears. Elites cant stop, or even affect, any of these movements because they are, at bottom, revolts against their wisdom, authority and virtue.

 

In sum, the wests establishment credibility is dying, and their influence is precipitously eroding all deservedly so. The frenetic pace of online media makes even the most recent events feel distant, like ancient history. That, in turn, makes it easy to lose sight of how many catastrophic and devastating failures western elites have produced in a remarkably short period of time.

 

In 2003, U.S. and British elites joined together to advocate one of the most heinous and immoral aggressive wars in decades: the destruction of Iraq; that it turned out to be centrally based on falsehoods that were ratified by the most trusted institutions, as well as a complete policy failure even on its own terms, gutted public trust.

 

 

In 2008, their economic worldview and unrestrained corruption precipitated a global economic crisis that literally caused, and is still causing, billions of people to suffer in response, they quickly protected the plutocrats who caused the crisis while leaving the victimized masses to cope with the generational fallout. Even now, western elites continue to proselytize markets and impose free trade and globalization without the slightest concern for the vast inequality and destruction of economic security those policies generate.

 

 

In 2011, NATO bombed Libya by pretending it was motivated by humanitarianism, only to ignore that country once the fun military triumph was celebrated, thus leaving a vacuum of anarchy and milita rule for years that spread instability through the region and fueled the refugee crisis. The U.S. and its European allies continue to invade, occupy and bomb predominantly Muslim countries while propping up their most brutal tyrants, then feign befuddlement about why anyone would want to attack them back, justifying erosions of basic liberties and more bombing campaigns and ratcheting up fear levels each time someone does. The rise of ISIS and the foothold it seized in Iraq and Libya were the direct by-products of the wests military actions (as even Tony Blair admitted regarding Iraq). Western societies continue to divert massive resources into military weaponry and prisons for their citizens, enriching the most powerful factions in the process, all while imposing harsh austerity on already suffering masses. In sum, western elites thrive while everyone else loses hope.

 

These are not random, isolated mistakes. They are the by-product of fundamental cultural pathologies within western elite circles a deep rot. Why should institutions that have repeatedly authored such travesties, and spread such misery, continue to command respect and credibility? They shouldnt, and theyre not. As Chris Hayes warned in his 2012 book Twilight of the Elites, given both the scope and depth of this distrust [in elite institutions], its clear that were in the midst of something far grander and more perilous than just a crisis of government or a crisis of capitalism. We are in the midst of a broad and devastating crisis of authority.

 

Its natural and inevitable that malignant figures will try to exploit this vacuum of authority. All sorts of demagogues and extremists will try to re-direct mass anger for their own ends. Revolts against corrupt elite institutions can usher in reform and progress, but they can also create a space for the ugliest tribal impulses: xenophobia, authoritarianism, racism, fascism. One sees all of that, both good and bad, manifesting in the anti-establishment movements throughout the U.S., Europe, and the UK: including Brexit. All of this can be invigorating, or promising, or destabilizing, or dangerous: most likely a combination of all that.

 

The solution is not to subserviently cling to corrupt elite institutions out of fear of the alternatives. It is, instead, to help bury those institutions and their elite mavens and then fight for superior replacements. As Hayes put it in his book, the challenge is directing the frustration, anger, and alienation we all feel into building a trans-ideological coalition that can actually dislodge the power of the post-meritocratic elite. One that marshals insurrectionist sentiment without succumbing to nihilism and manic, paranoid distrust.

 

Corrupt elites always try to persuade people to continue to submit to their dominance in exchange for protection from forces that are even worse. Thats their game. But at some point, they themselves, and their prevailing order, become so destructive, so deceitful, so toxic, that their victims are willing to gamble that the alternatives will not be worse, or at least, they decide to embrace the satisfaction of spitting in the faces of those who have displayed nothing but contempt and condescension for them.

 

There is no one, unifying explanation for Brexit, or Trumpism, or the growing extremism of various stripes throughout the west, but this sense of angry impotence an inability to see any option other than smashing those responsible for their plight is undoubtedly a major factor. As Bevins put it, supporters of Trump, and Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them.

 

Obviously, those who are the target of this anti-establishment rage political, economic and media elites are desperate to exonerate themselves, to demonstrate that they bear no responsibility for the suffering masses that are now refusing to be compliant and silent. The easiest course to achieve that goal is simply to demonize those with little power, wealth or possibility as stupid and racist: this is only happening because they are primitive and ignorant and hateful, not because they have any legitimate grievances or because I or my friends or my elite institutions have done anything wrong. As Vices Michael Tracey put it:

 

 

Because that reaction is so self-protective and self-glorifying, many U.S. media elites including those who knew almost nothing about Brexit until 48 hours ago instantly adopted it as their preferred narrative for explaining what happened, just as theyve done with Trump, Corbyn, Sanders and any number of other instances where their entitlement to rule has been disregarded. They are so persuaded of their own natural superiority that any factions who refuse to see it and submit to it prove themselves, by definition, to be regressive, stunted and amoral.

 

Indeed, media reaction to the Brexit vote filled with unreflective rage, condescension and contempt toward those who voted wrong perfectly illustrates the dynamics that caused all of this in the first place. Media elites, by virtue of their position, adore the status quo. It rewards them, vests them with prestige and position, welcomes them into exclusive circles, allows them to be close to (if not themselves wielding) great power while traveling their country and the world, provides them with a platform, fills them with esteem and purpose. The same is true of academic elites, and financial elites, and political elites. Elites love the status quo that has given them, and then protected, their elite position.

 

 

Because of how generally satisfied they are with their lot, they regard with affection and respect the internationalist institutions that safeguard the wests prevailing order: the World Bank and IMF, NATO and the wests military forces, the Federal Reserve, Wall Street, the EU. While they express some piecemeal criticisms of each, they literally cannot comprehend how anyone would be fundamentally disillusioned by and angry with these institutions, let alone want to break from them. They are far removed from the suffering that causes those anti-establishment sentiments. So they search and search in vain for some rationale that could explain something like Brexit, or the establishment-condemning movements on the right and left, and can find only one way to process it: these people are not motivated by any legitimate grievances or economic suffering, but instead they are just broken, ungrateful, immoral, hateful, racist and ignorant.

 

 

Of course it is the case that some, perhaps much, of the support given to these anti-establishment movements is grounded in those sorts of ugly sentiments. But its also the case that the media elites revered establishment institutions in finance, media and politics are driven by all sorts of equally ugly impulses, as the rotted fruit of their actions conclusively proves.

 

Even more important, the mechanism that western citizens are expected to use to express and rectify dissatisfaction elections has largely ceased to serve any correction function. As Hayes, in a widely cited tweet, put it this week about Brexit:

 

 

But that is exactly the choice presented not only by Brexit but also western elections generally, including the 2016 Clinton v. Trump General Election (just look at the powerful array of Wall Street tycoons and war-loving neocons which long before Trump viewed the former Democratic New York Senator and Secretary of State as their best hope for having their agenda and interests served). When democracy is preserved only in form, structured to change little to nothing about power distribution, people naturally seek alternatives for the redress of their grievances, particularly when they suffer.

 

More importantly still and directly contrary to what establishment liberals love to claim in order to demonize all who reject their authority economic suffering and xenophobia/racism are not mutually exclusive; the opposite is true: the former fuels the latter, as sustained economic misery makes people more receptive to tribalistic scapegoating. Thats precisely why plutocratic policies that deprive huge portions of the population of basic opportunity and hope are so dangerous. Claiming that supporters of Brexit or Trump or Corbyn or Sanders or anti-establishment European parties on the left and right are motivated only by hatred but not genuine economic suffering and political oppression is a transparent tactic for exonerating status quo institutions and evading responsibility for doing anything about their core corruption.

 

Part of this spiteful media reaction to Brexit is grounded in a dreary combination of sloth and habit: a sizable portion of the establishment-liberal commentariat in the west has completely lost the ability to engage with any sort of dissent from their orthodoxies, or even to understand those who disagree with them. They are capable of nothing beyond adopting the most smug and self-satisfied posture, then spouting clichés to dismiss their critics as ignorant, benighted bigots. Like the people of the west who bomb Muslim countries and then express confusion that anyone wants to attack them back, the most simple-minded of these establishment media liberals are constantly enraged that the people they endlessly malign as ignorant haters refuse to vest them with the respect and credibility to which they are naturally entitled.

 

But theres something deeper and more interesting driving the media reaction here. Establishment journalistic outlets are not outsiders. Theyre the opposite: they are fully integrated into elite institutions, are tools of those institutions, and thus identify fully with them. Of course they do not share, and cannot understand, anti-establishment sentiments: they are the targets of this establishment-hating revolt as much as anyone else. These journalists reaction to this anti-establishment backlash is a form of self-defense. As NYU Journalism Professor Jay Rosen put it last night, journalists today report on hostility to the political class, as if they had nothing to do with it, but they are a key part of that political class and, for that reason, if the population or part of it is in revolt against the political class, this is a problem for journalism.

 

There are many factors explaining why establishment journalists now have almost no ability to stem the tide of anti-establishment rage, even when its irrational and driven by ignoble impulses. Part of it is that the internet and social media have rendered them irrelevant, unnecessary to disseminate ideas. Part of it is that due their distance from them they have nothing to say to people who are suffering and angry about it other than to scorn them as hateful losers. Part of it is that journalists like anyone else tend to react with bitterness and rage, not self-assessment, as they lose influence and stature.

 

But a major factor is that many people recognize that establishment journalists are an integral part of the very institutions and corrupted elite circles that are authors of their plight. Rather than being people who mediate or inform these political conflicts, journalists are agents of the forces that are oppressing them. And when journalists react to their anger and suffering by telling them that its invalid and merely the by-product of their stupidity and primitive resentments, that only reinforces the perception that journalists are their enemy, thus rendering journalistic opinion increasingly irrelevant.

 

 

Brexit despite all of the harm it is likely to cause and despite all of the malicious politicians it will empower could have been a positive development. But that would require that elites (and their media outlets) react to the shock of this repudiation by spending some time reflecting on their own flaws, analyzing what they have done to contribute to such mass outrage and deprivation, in order to engage in course correction. Exactly the same potential benefit was generated by the Iraq debacle, the 2008 financial crisis, the rise of Trumpism and other anti-establishment movements: this is all compelling evidence that things have gone very wrong with those who wield the greatest power, that self-critique in elite circles is more vital than anything.

 

 

But, as usual, thats exactly what they most refuse to do. Instead of acknowledging and addressing the fundamental flaws within themselves, they are devoting their energies to demonizing the victims of their corruption, all in order to de-legitimize those grievances and thus relieve themselves of responsibility to meaningfully address them. That reaction only serves to bolster, if not vindicate, the animating perceptions that these elite institutions are hopelessly self-interested, toxic and destructive and thus cannot be reformed but rather must be destroyed. That, in turn, only ensures that there will be many more Brexits, and Trumps, in our collective future.

 

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-latest-proof-of-the-insularity-and-failure-of-western-establishment-institutions/

 

That's one of the best things I've ever read. It also pretty much sums up how I've been feeling about TV political reporting over the last fortnight.

 

Thanks for posting. :)

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I watched BBC news earlier and there were two pensioners who actually used "back to the good old days " which of course means no non-white faces around but it was interesting to see someone say that coal and steel had gone in Sheffield and nothing had been done. In other words he was lamenting nearly 40 years of lack of investment in the north which obviously includes the time under new Labour.

 

It's a view I obviously share considering I come from a place which was fucked over big style and has never recovered.

 

I know it's idealistic but if the result of this clusterfuck is that somebody actually decides to address these concerns in line with the article above while avoiding the racist undertones then something good may come out of this.

Edited by NJS

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One of my Italian friends was told to 'fuck off foreigner' when getting off a bus in town today.

 

This is not normal. Brexit has apparently validated racism in the eyes of those who voted for it.

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Probably won't effect anything but all we can do today. You're right, Farage should be arrested for fraud and hijacking blue collar misery for his unhinged purposes. People are already voting with there feet.. who wants to squelch around the world's largest open air prison with a bunch of obese semi literates?

Jesus :lol:

 

Good riddance to the lot of them and good luck in their New world where you keep voting til you get your own way.

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Jesus :lol:

 

Good riddance to the lot of them and good luck in their New world where you keep voting til you get your own way.

OOF. he got a bit close to the bone there with obese semi literates, didn't he? Should have been semi-obese illiterates? ;) Edited by Renton

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From the guardians comments section:

 

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

 

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

 

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

 

How?

 

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

 

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

 

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

 

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

 

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

 

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

 

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

 

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

 

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

 

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

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[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

Very grim between that and Rayvin's Italian mate. :(

 

1980s is being a bit optimistic though.

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Howay man, that figure got discredited straight away.

 

Far worse was the chancellor of the exchequer telling millions of pensioners they might lose pension money, workers their income tax would go up and there would be cuts to police and NHS???

You've been singing the cunt's praises for the last 6 years. Suddenly he's persona non grata with you?

 

Osborne has definitely shown that his ability to lead is non existent after his disappearing act of the last few days. The fucking Chancellor of the Exchequer nowhere to be seen following Brexit. We've heard from Carney, where the hell is Osborne? Why is more not being made of the fact that the second most important figure in the Tory government has gone awol at a time of crisis?!

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From the guardians comments section:

 

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

 

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

 

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

 

How?

 

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

 

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

 

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

 

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

 

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

 

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

 

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

 

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

 

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

 

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

 

:lol:

 

Whoever wrote that doesn't quite understand imo.

 

The point of delaying article 50 buys time.

 

Time to get a new leader in place.

Time to get the right negotiating team in place.

Time to have "informal" discussions with individual EU members to gain their support for the type of deal we want.

 

Once article 50 starts, the individual countries pass the negotiation over to the EU commission to deal with on their behalf. Much better to have influenced our "friends" (yes, term used loosely), who can then influence the commission.

 

As I've already said, it also gives a bit of time for heads to cool.

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:lol:

 

Whoever wrote that doesn't quite understand imo.

 

The point of delaying article 50 buys time.

 

Time to get a new leader in place.

Time to get the right negotiating team in place.

Time to have "informal" discussions with individual EU members to gain their support for the type of deal we want.

 

Once article 50 starts, the individual countries pass the negotiation over to the EU commission to deal with on their behalf. Much better to have influenced our "friends" (yes, term used loosely), who can then influence the commission.

 

As I've already said, it also gives a bit of time for heads to cool.

Time for businesses to take a worst case scenario approach and for the markets to be volatile as fuck.

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He's right, they should. It would be in the best interests of the country.

 

Hell would be on, of course. The skinheads would be out in force, for one thing. Don't you see what this has unleashed CT?

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[tweet]

[/tweet]

 

 

How normal is this? I don't know really, do fuckheads get together to put posters like this up often?

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It doesn't look like there's many there but I guess they feel the climate now is finally right for them to crawl out from whatever rock they were hiding under with this shite. Disgusting

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He's right, they should. It would be in the best interests of the country.

 

Hell would be on, of course. The skinheads would be out in force, for one thing. Don't you see what this has unleashed CT?

I do, next we'll be asking to re-take our penalty's at Euro 16 when we go out.

 

While they're at it, why don't the Labour MP's just ignore the grass roots and appoint whoever they fancy as leader?

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It doesn't look like there's many there but I guess they feel the climate now is finally right for them to crawl out from whatever rock they were hiding under with this shite. Disgusting

I get the impression the result seems to have given people leave to think it's now okay to be "honest" about how they feel. A lot of the interviewed have been fine saying "too many immigrants" without the usual "I'm not racist but" qualifier.

 

Of course I think you can feel that way without being racist but there's still a strong correlation.

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It doesn't look like there's many there but I guess they feel the climate now is finally right for them to crawl out from whatever rock they were hiding under with this shite. Disgusting

 

Of course they do, this is what Brexit was about for most of them.

 

Edited by Rayvin

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