Europe --- In or Out

[Rayvin 4949]

Another vote of confidence then. The timing is bizarre but then maybe May forced their hand with the second referendum talk. You would think it would have been better to wait until after the elections and blame the poor showing on her, but apparently not.

[ewerk 26192]

Why are they so set against another referendum though. Surely it stops all this squabbling and provides the government with a clear mandate on how to proceed?

[Renton 17633]

15 minutes ago, ewerk said:

This is happening the day before an election. Politics is fucked.

 

It's gone I think. What did it say?

[Gemmill 34190]

11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Why are they so set against another referendum though. Surely it stops all this squabbling and provides the government with a clear mandate on how to proceed?

They want Brexit at any cost now. It's psychosis. Actually that's not true, they want the most damaging form of Brexit at any cost. The psychosis part is true. 

[Renton 17633]

Wish I'd bought a stock of euros a month ago. Going abroad is getting very expensive. Still, it's what we want. 

[ewerk 26192]

14 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

They want Brexit at any cost now. It's psychosis. Actually that's not true, they want the most damaging form of Brexit at any cost. The psychosis part is true. 

I understand the likes of CT going Brexit mad but before the referendum on 139 Tories were in favour of Brexit. This issue has torn their party apart. The smart thing would be to put it to bed ASAP.

[Gemmill 34190]

My own mother is a raving Brexiteer. Wants to leave with no deal in October and tells me I need to "believe in Britain more". Embarrassing. I mean she can just about work the Sky box and yet she is adamant that she's got this exactly right.

[PaddockLad 14528]

Mogg begging for votes for "no threat to the single market" Hannan. If the replies are replicated across the country then it would appear Davey Cameron's big idea for ending 50 years of back bench warfare has finally ruined them

 

 

[Gemmill 34190]

It's heartbreaking that there isn't a Labour Party worthy of the name to capitalise on this. 

[Renton 17633]

34 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

It's heartbreaking that there isn't a Labour Party worthy of the name to capitalise on this. 

 

@Rayvin

 

 

 

[Rayvin 4949]

Mm, if i knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have backed Corbyn. I probably would have just stopped voting.

[Renton 17633]

I still blame my wife for voting for the wrong Miliband. That's what set out this chain of events. 

[Gemmill 34190]

Some fuckwit Labour MP just stood up and referred to the UN Special Rapporteur as the UN Special Repertoire. 

 

For which I also blame Renton's wife. 

[Rayvin 4949]

I think Ed could have been fine if he'd had a stronger line on austerity. Austerity is the source of Brexit, I have no doubt about that personally.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Rayvin

[Renton 17633]

8 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I think Ed could have been fine if he'd had a stronger line on austerity. Austerity is the source of Brexit, I have no doubt about that personally.

 

He fucked up the leader voting system, and opened up the party to momentum. And lest we forget, couldn't eat a bacon sarnie properly. 

[Rayvin 4949]

I genuinely don't think momentum is a bad thing while it's a grassroots movement of Labour voters. The problem with it is that it's now complicit in ignoring the actual will of the membership. There's no problem with having 600,000 members if 90% of them are sensible enough to back remaining in the EU. There is a problem when they're all being ignored.

[Gemmill 34190]

With craic like this, she deserves every second of her ongoing humiliation. 

[Renton 17633]

3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I genuinely don't think momentum is a bad thing while it's a grassroots movement of Labour voters. The problem with it is that it's now complicit in ignoring the actual will of the membership. There's no problem with having 600,000 members if 90% of them are sensible enough to back remaining in the EU. There is a problem when they're all being ignored.

 

You can't separate one from the other though. Momentum have acted like they are a teenage fan club to Corbyn. "Love Corbyn, hate Brexit" or whatever contradictory bollocks they put on their T shirts. Idiots. They've enabled Corbyn and therefore Brexit. I think we more or less agree on this anyway. Gemmil's frustration is shared by many. There was an opportunity here to destroy the Conservatives forever, and we blew it. 

[Rayvin 4949]

Curious though, what would have emerged from the death of the Tories. Seems clear that a decent chunk of it is 'the far right'.

[Gemmill 34190]

So she's allowing a vote on a 2nd referendum despite Cabinet thinking they had quashed it yesterday. The Maybot has gone full rogue. 

[NJS 3960]

I still love the idea that if Corbyn had been full on remain, parliamentary numbers would have allowed him to not "enable brexit". 

 

There has never been nor ever will be a majority for a revocation, soft Brexit, second ref or any other "unicorn" ideas you come up with. But keep saying it's his fault. 

[Gemmill 34190]

 

 

 

[Rayvin 4949]

13 minutes ago, NJS said:

I still love the idea that if Corbyn had been full on remain, parliamentary numbers would have allowed him to not "enable brexit". 

 

There has never been nor ever will be a majority for a revocation, soft Brexit, second ref or any other "unicorn" ideas you come up with. But keep saying it's his fault. 

 

I think if he had been full on Remain, we wouldn't now be seeing Labour splitting the Remain vote - we'd be increasing the political legitimacy of a second referendum.

 

My issue isn't so much that I think he could have changed very much (although I do accept Gemmill/Renton's point that Labour would be in a much better position to punish the Tories if they had made a stand, rather than implicating themselves in the inadequacy), but that he is now deliberately ignoring the will of his members.

Edited May 22, 2019 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 19744]

51 minutes ago, Gemmill said:

With craic like this, she deserves every second of her ongoing humiliation. 

jesus, what a child 

[Renton 17633]

14 minutes ago, NJS said:

I still love the idea that if Corbyn had been full on remain, parliamentary numbers would have allowed him to not "enable brexit". 

 

There has never been nor ever will be a majority for a revocation, soft Brexit, second ref or any other "unicorn" ideas you come up with. But keep saying it's his fault. 

 

If Corbyn had been full on remain, there is every chance Remain would have won the referendum. If someone else was leader of the Labour Party, there is every chance the Conservatives would have been obliterated by now. If David Miliband had been leader of the Labour Party in 2015, it is highly unlikely Cameron would have won outright to deliver his referendum. Etc. Corbyn has been a disaster, you appear to be the only one left not to acknowledge this.