Europe --- In or Out

[Renton 2,142]

6 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

this seriously isn't news.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

we have known this would be the case for years now - ever since theresa may's lancaster house speech when the tory party decided that brexit meant leaving the single market.

the headline should really be: brexit voters get what they voted for

 

 

Was she a Brexit voter? I think this is news and these issues need to be reported much more, it will impact on all of us. Yes, they were nailed on in 2017, this needs reporting too. It didn't have to be this way.

 

[Renton 2,142]

Meanwhile, wtaf, are we intentionally winding the EU up? We are refusing to properly recognise the EU ambassador, because the EU is an international body, like  NATO, not a nation.

 

Well if this is the case HOW THE HOLY FUCK did it impinge on our so-called sovereignty? What the fuck is happening to us? 

 

BBC News - UK and EU in row over bloc's diplomatic status
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55742664

 

[Rayvin 1,333]

Is there any logic or benefit to us not recognising the EU ambassador? Or are we just being cunts?

[Renton 2,142]

5 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Is there any logic or benefit to us not recognising the EU ambassador? Or are we just being cunts?

 

It's just more bizarre behaviour. As once signatories to the Lisbon they we recognised the EU's supranational status. Now we don't. But as I say, how does that fit in with us gaining sovereignty?

 

At least in the US they can turn course now and try to right things. We are fucked for at least 4 more years. 

[Alex 5,902]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Was she a Brexit voter? I think this is news and these issues need to be reported much more, it will impact on all of us. Yes, they were nailed on in 2017, this needs reporting too. It didn't have to be this way.

 

I agree. They clearly weren’t informed when they placed the order. The people who sold the ‘Brexit vision’ were extremely reticent about relating this sort of thing and Gloom’s esteemed colleagues in the media were largely quiet about it until it was far too late. Of course it’s ‘news’ 

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Was she a Brexit voter? I think this is news and these issues need to be reported much more, it will impact on all of us. Yes, they were nailed on in 2017, this needs reporting too. It didn't have to be this way.

 

i dunno. i'm not blaming her if she isn't. it's the brexit voters that are getting what they wanted

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

5 minutes ago, Alex said:

I agree. They clearly weren’t informed when they placed the order. The people who sold the ‘Brexit vision’ were extremely reticent about relating this sort of thing and Gloom’s esteemed colleagues in the media were largely quiet about it until it was far too late. Of course it’s ‘news’ 

Sorry but you cannot blame the media for this. It has been in the public domain since 2017. Ever since then it has been official Tory policy to use Brexit to leave the single market and customs union.

Johnson won an election on that basis so it is literally is the opposite of news. At what point do we stop feeling sorry for the fuckheads who voted for this not once but THREE TIMES? 

 

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

i mean, we all consume mainstream media and we all knew what was coming, right? 

[ewerk 6,494]

We were told there would be tariff free access. Most people wouldn't equate that to huge customs and VAT charges.

[Renton 2,142]

1 hour ago, Dr Gloom said:

Sorry but you cannot blame the media for this. It has been in the public domain since 2017. Ever since then it has been official Tory policy to use Brexit to leave the single market and customs union.

Johnson won an election on that basis so it is literally is the opposite of news. At what point do we stop feeling sorry for the fuckheads who voted for this not once but THREE TIMES? 

 

 

The MSM have been fucking clueless about this man. They can't tell the difference between the single market or customs union, or between a tariff and a non tariff barrier which is what we are seeing. If the MSM had done their job we would not be where we are.

 

Even now, so called quality papers like the Guardian are referring to these "new" regulations. They're not new, they've always been there, its just now they apply to us as a third country. This is a really important point when the gammons start blaming the EU for bullying us. But the MSM are too thick to get it right and the false narrative goes on....

 

tl/dr: shame on @Dr Gloom

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

sigh

[Isegrim 1,902]

3 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Was she a Brexit voter? I think this is news and these issues need to be reported much more, it will impact on all of us. Yes, they were nailed on in 2017, this needs reporting too. It didn't have to be this way.

 

She can buy happy British clothing now though to go with her fish.

[Renton 2,142]

20 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

sigh

 

Really? You must be the only one who thinks the media have done a good job communicating what Brexit means. The media are as complicit as the tories in the fall of this country. Half of them poisoning peoples minds and the other half either not bothering to understand the issues and/or providing a platform for the fascists on the basis of "fairness". 

[Rayvin 1,333]

IMO the media have Neville Chamberlain'd us into this with consistent appeasement of the nutjobs. It's not balance if one side is entirely making things up - it's muddying the water.

 

What we have needed throughout was for the BBC to put journalistic integrity ahead of its own survival. That's clearly not in the BBC's interests in terms of the people who work for it, but it would have been in the country's interests. And the former explains why it didn't happen, I think.

 

And the rest of the media just fell about it along traditional biases.

[Alex 5,902]

3 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Sorry but you cannot blame the media for this. It has been in the public domain since 2017. Ever since then it has been official Tory policy to use Brexit to leave the single market and customs union.

Johnson won an election on that basis so it is literally is the opposite of news. At what point do we stop feeling sorry for the fuckheads who voted for this not once but THREE TIMES? 

 

WERE THE IMPLICATIONS FULLY EXPLAINED BY THE MSM? Were they fuck. The media’s role in this has been, on the whole, shameful. Social media was a big issue too. Are you suggesting the Mail et al. Or the BBC even. Gave a balanced view outlining all the downsides? The Beeb were licking Johnson’s hoop for getting the deal ‘everyone said was impossible’ or words to that effect in the run up to the election

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Really? You must be the only one who thinks the media have done a good job communicating what Brexit means. The media are as complicit as the tories in the fall of this country. Half of them poisoning peoples minds and the other half either not bothering to understand the issues and/or providing a platform for the fascists on the basis of "fairness". 

i didn't say "the media" have done a good job. many media companies haven't, some publications have - the ft for example warned of the VAT issue in 2018 

but there comes a point where people have to take some personal responsibility. of course certain publications push certain narratives, but a lot of information was in the public realm. the reality is most voters aren't having these kind of conversations and don't want to be informed. they just wanted to get brexit done. 

a lot of the media are obviously govt mouth pieces but there is enough information out there for people to know what they were voting for had massive implications - workers rights and custom issues are just two examples. both have been reported as news in recent days but we were warned about both issues long before johnson was given a mandate to deliver his hard brexit up the nation's arse without any lube. 

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

42 minutes ago, Alex said:

WERE THE IMPLICATIONS FULLY EXPLAINED BY THE MSM? Were they fuck. The media’s role in this has been, on the whole, shameful. Social media was a big issue too. Are you suggesting the Mail et al. Or the BBC even. Gave a balanced view outlining all the downsides? The Beeb were licking Johnson’s hoop for getting the deal ‘everyone said was impossible’ or words to that effect in the run up to the election

in some publications, yes they were. 

of course i'm not saying the mail gave a balanced view, ffs. but then that's the problem when people use the term "MSM" as if all media companies are a single entity. 

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

james o'brien has been banging this drum ever since the brexit vote. LBC is pretty fucking mainstream.

the information was out there if people wanted to find it. 

[Alex 5,902]

You generalised about the media when you rendered them blameless but that’s ok. And you've given one example to back that up, using a station where the likes of Farage and Hopkins got equal billing.  

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

i gave two examples - the FT is also "MSM" and therefore lumped in the same category as LBC. it's nonsense. 

of course we have lots of shitty media companies that helped shape views and confirm bias. i didn't suggest otherwise. but the point is the information was out there and many quality publications reported it. we all knew about the risks, didn't we? we have been debating it every day on here for five years. why didn't the rest of the country know? people didn't want to hear. they didn't want to know and now they have got what they deserve. it's time for the brexiteers to own this shitstorm

forgive me if i'm being overly defensive but i find the situation we're in terribly bleak and depressing. i also know that my colleagues played little part in influencing people to vote to leave. i sleep well at night in that regard. though plenty of other stuff is keeping me awake right now. 

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

fwiw, i had a lot of sympathy for brexit voters after the referendum. they were obviously sold a lie by politicians and i accept the beeb didn't help by giving as platform to the likes of farage in the name of balance.

but they've had two elections since then to figure it out. it's not like a lot of this stuff hasn't been reported. it was all we used to talk about before the coronavirus thread. it has certainly sustained more chat on here than the football board in recent years. 

Edited January 21 by Dr Gloom

[Alex 5,902]

Unless we’ve got our wires crossed I think we’re (except the person working in the industry - funnily enough) acknowledging the role the majority of the “MSM” played in what happened as opposed to exonerating everyone led down the garden path. 

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Unless we’ve got our wires crossed I think we’re (except the person working in the industry - funnily enough) acknowledging the role the majority of the “MSM” played in what happened as opposed to exonerating everyone led down the garden path. 

of course i acknowledge that like the mail and the sun did a lot of the heavy lifting. even the beeb fanned the flames on occasion, in the pursuit of balance.

what i don't accept is that the media is solely to blame. or that people weren't warned about a lot of the stuff that is now being reported as news. it was out there if people wanted to find it. 

[Alex 5,902]

3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

 

what i don't accept is that the media is solely to blame. 

That’s your straw man argument anyway tbh

[Dr Gloom 3,068]

4 minutes ago, Alex said:

That’s your straw man argument anyway tbh

how is it strawman? 

you said

Gloom’s esteemed colleagues in the media were largely quiet about it until it was far too late

and yet quality "MSM" outlets such as the FT reported on the risks posed by a tory hard brexit, such as the VAT question in the link i provided further up the thread, from 2018 - long before johnson was given his mandate to get brexit done.