Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 we are not likely to be "on shaky ground" financially Our income from CATERING alone covers the cost of the interest on the long term loan AND its repayment FFS 78697[/snapback] Agreed. We aren't doing particularly well, and we're doing nowhere near well enough to warrant the sort of dividends that the directors pay themselves, but we're not in any immediate financial danger. 78706[/snapback] It would be a more important point if you'd written....... We aren't doing particularly well, and we're doing nowhere near well enough to give the club the ability to continue spending, having spent £50m bringing in new employees in the last year or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Golden rule of football, you NEVER, NEVER sell your best players [speculate to accumulate - unless they want to go and you have no choice] and Craig Bellamy most definitely did not want to leave NUFC. 78649[/snapback] Golden rule of being an employee, you NEVER, NEVER go on national TV and call your manager, and by implication, the Chairman of the company you work for, a liar....... 78657[/snapback] and a manager doesn't assault his employee on the training ground .. the point is Gem, football is different, footballers are the valuable commodity not the other way round, they call the tune, if you lose them you can't replace them by putting a vacancy in an agency or the job centre.......and thats why these managers are also paid a lot of money 78725[/snapback] Good point. Don't expect a reply that addresses it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34435 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 we are not likely to be "on shaky ground" financially Our income from CATERING alone covers the cost of the interest on the long term loan AND its repayment FFS 78697[/snapback] Agreed. We aren't doing particularly well, and we're doing nowhere near well enough to warrant the sort of dividends that the directors pay themselves, but we're not in any immediate financial danger. 78706[/snapback] It would be a more important point if you'd written....... We aren't doing particularly well, and we're doing nowhere near well enough to give the club the ability to continue spending, having spent £50m bringing in new employees in the last year or so. 78833[/snapback] It would be an entirely different point, no more or less important. Thanks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 There's no proof Souness assaulted Bellamy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34435 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Golden rule of football, you NEVER, NEVER sell your best players [speculate to accumulate - unless they want to go and you have no choice] and Craig Bellamy most definitely did not want to leave NUFC. 78649[/snapback] Golden rule of being an employee, you NEVER, NEVER go on national TV and call your manager, and by implication, the Chairman of the company you work for, a liar....... 78657[/snapback] and a manager doesn't assault his employee on the training ground .. the point is Gem, football is different, footballers are the valuable commodity not the other way round, they call the tune, if you lose them you can't replace them by putting a vacancy in an agency or the job centre.......and thats why these managers are also paid a lot of money 78725[/snapback] Good point. Don't expect a reply that addresses it properly. 78836[/snapback] Professionals are professionals, regardless of their line of work, how much they earn, or whether or not they command a transfer value, and they're expected to conduct themselves accordingly. I can't think of a club or a manager in the Premier League that would have put up with being called a liar by a player on national TV. No-one would put up with that, and nor should they, regardless of the "valuable commodity....can't be replaced down the job centre" stuff. How's that for a reply that addresses it properly? Doesn't matter how good a player Bellamy is or was. He signed his own death warrant at Newcastle United, regardless of whether of whether you believe there was provocation from Souness or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 we are not likely to be "on shaky ground" financially Our income from CATERING alone covers the cost of the interest on the long term loan AND its repayment FFS 78697[/snapback] Agreed. We aren't doing particularly well, and we're doing nowhere near well enough to warrant the sort of dividends that the directors pay themselves, but we're not in any immediate financial danger. 78706[/snapback] It would be a more important point if you'd written....... We aren't doing particularly well, and we're doing nowhere near well enough to give the club the ability to continue spending, having spent £50m bringing in new employees in the last year or so. 78833[/snapback] It would be an entirely different point, no more or less important. Thanks though. 78839[/snapback] No, it would be more important to mention the £50m spent, than the comparative small amount taken in dividends. I say this on the basis that the club is in the shit because an incompetent manager has been funded to the tune of £50m, not because dividends have been paid to directors. In addition, you choose to talk about director dividends despite the fact that millions of directors are taking dividends from companies ( both good and bad ones) all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3978 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Professionals are professionals, regardless of their line of work, how much they earn, or whether or not they command a transfer value, and they're expected to conduct themselves accordingly. I can't think of a club or a manager in the Premier League that would have put up with being called a liar by a player on national TV. No-one would put up with that, and nor should they, regardless of the "valuable commodity....can't be replaced down the job centre" stuff. How's that for a reply that addresses it properly? Doesn't matter how good a player Bellamy is or was. He signed his own death warrant at Newcastle United, regardless of whether of whether you believe there was provocation from Souness or not. 78842[/snapback] I'm sure LM has implied in the past that short of criminal conviction, nothing a players does off the pitch "counts" as long as they do the business on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Golden rule of football, you NEVER, NEVER sell your best players [speculate to accumulate - unless they want to go and you have no choice] and Craig Bellamy most definitely did not want to leave NUFC. 78649[/snapback] Golden rule of being an employee, you NEVER, NEVER go on national TV and call your manager, and by implication, the Chairman of the company you work for, a liar....... 78657[/snapback] and a manager doesn't assault his employee on the training ground .. the point is Gem, football is different, footballers are the valuable commodity not the other way round, they call the tune, if you lose them you can't replace them by putting a vacancy in an agency or the job centre.......and thats why these managers are also paid a lot of money 78725[/snapback] Good point. Don't expect a reply that addresses it properly. 78836[/snapback] Professionals are professionals, regardless of their line of work, how much they earn, or whether or not they command a transfer value, and they're expected to conduct themselves accordingly. I can't think of a club or a manager in the Premier League that would have put up with being called a liar by a player on national TV. No-one would put up with that, and nor should they, regardless of the "valuable commodity....can't be replaced down the job centre" stuff. How's that for a reply that addresses it properly? Doesn't matter how good a player Bellamy is or was. He signed his own death warrant at Newcastle United, regardless of whether of whether you believe there was provocation from Souness or not. 78842[/snapback] Credit for trying. No points for the content though. Football IS different, despite what you may want to beleive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3978 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Football IS different, despite what you may want to beleive. 78873[/snapback] So is criminal conviction the only measure of misconduct for footballers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34435 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Golden rule of football, you NEVER, NEVER sell your best players [speculate to accumulate - unless they want to go and you have no choice] and Craig Bellamy most definitely did not want to leave NUFC. 78649[/snapback] Golden rule of being an employee, you NEVER, NEVER go on national TV and call your manager, and by implication, the Chairman of the company you work for, a liar....... 78657[/snapback] and a manager doesn't assault his employee on the training ground .. the point is Gem, football is different, footballers are the valuable commodity not the other way round, they call the tune, if you lose them you can't replace them by putting a vacancy in an agency or the job centre.......and thats why these managers are also paid a lot of money 78725[/snapback] Good point. Don't expect a reply that addresses it properly. 78836[/snapback] Professionals are professionals, regardless of their line of work, how much they earn, or whether or not they command a transfer value, and they're expected to conduct themselves accordingly. I can't think of a club or a manager in the Premier League that would have put up with being called a liar by a player on national TV. No-one would put up with that, and nor should they, regardless of the "valuable commodity....can't be replaced down the job centre" stuff. How's that for a reply that addresses it properly? Doesn't matter how good a player Bellamy is or was. He signed his own death warrant at Newcastle United, regardless of whether of whether you believe there was provocation from Souness or not. 78842[/snapback] Credit for trying. No points for the content though. Football IS different, despite what you may want to beleive. 78873[/snapback] Damn, no points eh? Gutted. So the correct approach would have been for Shepherd to say to Souness "Now Graeme, I know this lad's just totally undermined both your and my position at the club, and made us something of a laughing stock in the national media. But you have to counter that with the fact that he runs fast and he tries hard. On balance I think it's best if you just keep him on. Maybe it does send out a message that any sort of unprofessional behaviour is acceptable at Newcastle United, and that the players rule the roost, but..........well......football IS different." Moronic. Even by your standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Football is different like, that's why Souness isn't the right person for the job in this day and age. He can't handle people who don't toe the line. I think he provoked Bellamy and Bellamy played right into to his hands. A victory for Souness, but not for the club and its fans. I don't condone Bellamy's actions, but what top footballers are saints these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Football IS different, despite what you may want to beleive. 78873[/snapback] I totally agree with that. Image is also incredibly important to football clubs and to plcs, what Bellamy did made a mockery of the Newcastle United. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Professionals are professionals, regardless of their line of work, how much they earn, or whether or not they command a transfer value, and they're expected to conduct themselves accordingly. I can't think of a club or a manager in the Premier League that would have put up with being called a liar by a player on national TV. No-one would put up with that, and nor should they, regardless of the "valuable commodity....can't be replaced down the job centre" stuff. How's that for a reply that addresses it properly? Doesn't matter how good a player Bellamy is or was. He signed his own death warrant at Newcastle United, regardless of whether of whether you believe there was provocation from Souness or not. 78842[/snapback] I'm sure LM has implied in the past that short of criminal conviction, nothing a players does off the pitch "counts" as long as they do the business on it. 78872[/snapback] That would be me actually. Although the statement you make isn't entirely correct, I did post something close to that a while ago. It wasn't a 'implication', by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34435 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 we are not likely to be "on shaky ground" financially Our income from CATERING alone covers the cost of the interest on the long term loan AND its repayment FFS 78697[/snapback] Agreed. We aren't doing particularly well, and we're doing nowhere near well enough to warrant the sort of dividends that the directors pay themselves, but we're not in any immediate financial danger. 78706[/snapback] It would be a more important point if you'd written....... We aren't doing particularly well, and we're doing nowhere near well enough to give the club the ability to continue spending, having spent £50m bringing in new employees in the last year or so. 78833[/snapback] It would be an entirely different point, no more or less important. Thanks though. 78839[/snapback] No, it would be more important to mention the £50m spent, than the comparative small amount taken in dividends. I say this on the basis that the club is in the shit because an incompetent manager has been funded to the tune of £50m, not because dividends have been paid to directors. In addition, you choose to talk about director dividends despite the fact that millions of directors are taking dividends from companies ( both good and bad ones) all over the place. 78869[/snapback] In your opinion it would be more important. In my opinion it would be a totally different point, no more important than the one I was making. But again, thanks for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Football IS different, despite what you may want to beleive. 78873[/snapback] So is criminal conviction the only measure of misconduct for footballers? 78874[/snapback] Any reason in particular why you're asking? I thought we were talking about the club's debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Football is different like, that's why Souness isn't the right person for the job in this day and age. He can't handle people who don't toe the line. I think he provoked Bellamy and Bellamy played right into to his hands. A victory for Souness, but not for the club and its fans. I don't condone Bellamy's actions, but what top footballers are saints these days? 78876[/snapback] Sensible post Alex, exactly what I think about it, must mean you're a moron as well, mate. So join the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34435 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Football is different like, that's why Souness isn't the right person for the job in this day and age. He can't handle people who don't toe the line. I think he provoked Bellamy and Bellamy played right into to his hands. A victory for Souness, but not for the club and its fans. I don't condone Bellamy's actions, but what top footballers are saints these days? 78876[/snapback] Sensible post Alex, exactly what I think about it, must mean you're a moron as well, mate. So join the club. 78885[/snapback] No, no. Just you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3978 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Football IS different, despite what you may want to beleive. 78873[/snapback] So is criminal conviction the only measure of misconduct for footballers? 78874[/snapback] Any reason in particular why you're asking? I thought we were talking about the club's debt. 78883[/snapback] I realised it was you who said the thing about on/off the pitch after you replied to Gemmill. The point is if "football is different" which implies footballers don't have "real world" standards then how do you measure misconduct? It applies to the debt as apparently the damage to the finances caused by Souness devaluing Bellamy is huge. I also noted that Gemmill pointed out that from an accountancy pov Player's are worth their price not their perceived worth. Therefore Bellamy's sale had an even more minimal effect from a purely financial pov (and a benefit allowing for write-down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 In your opinion it would be more important. In my opinion it would be a totally different point, no more important than the one I was making. But again, thanks for your input. 78882[/snapback] Good to know you're not interested in the future stability of the football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) Football is different like, that's why Souness isn't the right person for the job in this day and age. He can't handle people who don't toe the line. I think he provoked Bellamy and Bellamy played right into to his hands. A victory for Souness, but not for the club and its fans. I don't condone Bellamy's actions, but what top footballers are saints these days? 78876[/snapback] Sensible post Alex, exactly what I think about it, must mean you're a moron as well, mate. So join the club. 78885[/snapback] No, no. Just you. 78887[/snapback] Tut tut. mo·ron A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive. Let's hope that the next time I offend someone on here it'll be acceptable to everybody. Edited January 13, 2006 by Howaythelads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 (edited) Football IS different, despite what you may want to beleive. 78873[/snapback] So is criminal conviction the only measure of misconduct for footballers? 78874[/snapback] Any reason in particular why you're asking? I thought we were talking about the club's debt. 78883[/snapback] I realised it was you who said the thing about on/off the pitch after you replied to Gemmill. The point is if "football is different" which implies footballers don't have "real world" standards then how do you measure misconduct? It applies to the debt as apparently the damage to the finances caused by Souness devaluing Bellamy is huge. I also noted that Gemmill pointed out that from an accountancy pov Player's are worth their price not their perceived worth. Therefore Bellamy's sale had an even more minimal effect from a purely financial pov (and a benefit allowing for write-down). 78890[/snapback] It doesn't imply that to me and wasn't what I was thinking. But since you mention it.... how can you expect all footballers to have real world standards? They are all human beings, they are all different. Some will deal with the fame and the money better than others, some will be arseholes. They'd be arseholes whether they are footballers or not, because that's their nature, it's how they are. Some that are borderline might be turned into wankers by the riches, who knows? All I'm saying is that you can't automatically expect someone to be 'Mr Sensible' just because they have a load of money. It comes with the territory these days and is typified by the youth all around to be honest. There's no respect in society in general, it's a big issue and is not restricted to footballers. So for example, I'm frankly not in the least bit concerned about Bellamy calling Souness a liar in the media, or Bellamy telling Shrek and Babayaro they were signing for a shit manager. I know it's not ideal, but I'm interested in how the team performs, so I'm far more bothered that Bellamy is correct, because the fact Souness is shit has a greater impact on the team than Bellamy saying so in public. Edited January 13, 2006 by Howaythelads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Golden rule of football, you NEVER, NEVER sell your best players [speculate to accumulate - unless they want to go and you have no choice] and Craig Bellamy most definitely did not want to leave NUFC. 78649[/snapback] Golden rule of being an employee, you NEVER, NEVER go on national TV and call your manager, and by implication, the Chairman of the company you work for, a liar....... 78657[/snapback] and a manager doesn't assault his employee on the training ground .. the point is Gem, football is different, footballers are the valuable commodity not the other way round, they call the tune, if you lose them you can't replace them by putting a vacancy in an agency or the job centre.......and thats why these managers are also paid a lot of money 78725[/snapback] Good point. Don't expect a reply that addresses it properly. 78836[/snapback] Professionals are professionals, regardless of their line of work, how much they earn, or whether or not they command a transfer value, and they're expected to conduct themselves accordingly. I can't think of a club or a manager in the Premier League that would have put up with being called a liar by a player on national TV. No-one would put up with that, and nor should they, regardless of the "valuable commodity....can't be replaced down the job centre" stuff. How's that for a reply that addresses it properly? Doesn't matter how good a player Bellamy is or was. He signed his own death warrant at Newcastle United, regardless of whether of whether you believe there was provocation from Souness or not. 78842[/snapback] Souness signed his own death warrant the day he decided he couldn't be bothered to manage his most effective and vital forward in return for his multi million pound contract. Negligence of the highest order, and should have been immediately rewarded with his p45. Shame he didn't have the weight of public opinion against him, like now, or he wouldn't have got away with it. But some of us said at the time we shouldn't give him the time to "prove" himself, to be a shit manager as he has been for years. A manager shouldn't provoke his employees. This has been the point from day 1, glad to see you now admit you see that, however unintentionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Football IS different, despite what you may want to beleive. 78873[/snapback] So is criminal conviction the only measure of misconduct for footballers? 78874[/snapback] what a strange question. Assault of an employee is an offence, or didn't you realise that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 Golden rule of football, you NEVER, NEVER sell your best players [speculate to accumulate - unless they want to go and you have no choice] and Craig Bellamy most definitely did not want to leave NUFC. 78649[/snapback] Golden rule of being an employee, you NEVER, NEVER go on national TV and call your manager, and by implication, the Chairman of the company you work for, a liar....... 78657[/snapback] and a manager doesn't assault his employee on the training ground .. the point is Gem, football is different, footballers are the valuable commodity not the other way round, they call the tune, if you lose them you can't replace them by putting a vacancy in an agency or the job centre.......and thats why these managers are also paid a lot of money 78725[/snapback] Good point. Don't expect a reply that addresses it properly. 78836[/snapback] Professionals are professionals, regardless of their line of work, how much they earn, or whether or not they command a transfer value, and they're expected to conduct themselves accordingly. I can't think of a club or a manager in the Premier League that would have put up with being called a liar by a player on national TV. No-one would put up with that, and nor should they, regardless of the "valuable commodity....can't be replaced down the job centre" stuff. How's that for a reply that addresses it properly? Doesn't matter how good a player Bellamy is or was. He signed his own death warrant at Newcastle United, regardless of whether of whether you believe there was provocation from Souness or not. 78842[/snapback] Souness signed his own death warrant the day he decided he couldn't be bothered to manage his most effective and vital forward in return for his multi million pound contract. Negligence of the highest order, and should have been immediately rewarded with his p45. Shame he didn't have the weight of public opinion against him, like now, or he wouldn't have got away with it. But some of us said at the time we shouldn't give him the time to "prove" himself, to be a shit manager as he has been for years. A manager shouldn't provoke his employees. This has been the point from day 1, glad to see you now admit you see that, however unintentionally. 78930[/snapback] Both should have gone tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted January 13, 2006 Share Posted January 13, 2006 the position we were in last august was that, he had backed his manager, so he either had to back him further or sack him. If he hadn't bought 2 forwards for extortionate prices, under pressure brought about by Souness' amateur ego motivated management, we would today be in the bottom 3.78643[/snapback] In other words, you support Souness's decision to pressurise for these signings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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