Happy Face 29 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2013/jun/07/uk-gathering-secret-intelligence-nsa-prism How the PRISM program works in the UK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6846 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) The "nothing to hide" defense is a blinkered one, which I think presumes the data will only be used by the military. Naively in my opinion. "They" do not monitor who individuals are, or what they do, what photos of cats they put up. They are chasing an exhaustive cataloguing of every person on the planet. Every link a person has to other people. They can then categorize those people into large groups. Those groups can then be monitored and controlled by propaganda. I follow Glenn Greenwald, Al Jazeera, Noam Chomsky and Julian assange. I will be categorized in the group not likely to vote for either main party. If this group gets too big, then it will challenge the hegemony. Leazes Mag might follow the EDL, David Cameron and the British Army. He is in the group with nationalist tendencies. Always likely to go with the main parties, and likely to be diverted from struggles in the local leadership by increased rhetoric over war against ...say...Libya. This group is less dangerous, but needs to be monitored carefully, for polling which of the 2 main parties they are swaying between. Then there are the ignorant. people who follow Tulisa and Simon Cowell. They can almost be ignored as a group entirely. They will offer no challenges to the elites. Their data is useful only in terms of what can be sold to them. This group will join the riots if they aren't suitibly fed and watered and given the appropriate level of diversion. Total information awareness is about computer programs managing all this data and recomendations being made on the basis of huge populations. This is a subversion of democracy. Government controlling the people. Not people controlling the government. I don't presume anything in terms of the data use, i really don't care. The problem is that's always been the case, you only have a problem with this type of stuff if you naively think anyone on the face of the planet is actually free to any great degree, I am of the opinion we are not - hence for example, I can't own a firearm. Cold war quote (I can't remember who from) "The only difference between us and the Russians is, we think we're free, they know they're not". True today as it ever was. Edited June 7, 2013 by Toonpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 I don't presume anything in terms of the data use, i really don't care. The problem is that's always been the case, you only have a problem with this type of stuff if you naively think anyone on the face of the planet is actually free to any great degree, I am of the opinion we are not - hence for example, I can't own a firearm. Cold war quote (I can't remember who from) "The only difference between us and the Russians is, we think we're free, they know they're not". True today as it ever was. We have an unprecedented level of secret state surveillance. Cold war quotes have nothing to say about the increasing level of government snooping in a 20 year old technology and the data mining that's been going on for only 6 years. I am not naive. No-one on the planet is entirely free. We are all governed to some degree by laws, rules, taboos and convention. The number of citizens surveilled has risen exponentially though, and the oversight on that surveillance has reduced inversely in proportion to it. The interpretation of the laws we abide by are kept from us more than ever. Shrugging your shoulders and claiming indifference as the net is cast ever wider is fine. It offers nothing to the debate though does it, neither support or opposition. I thought generation X, too cool for school, indifference went out of fashion in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 Changed the title because the leaks keep on coming.... Eighteen-page presidential memo reveals how Barack Obama has ordered intelligence officials to draw up a list of potential overseas targets for US cyber attacks http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2013/jun/07/obama-cyber-directive-full-text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 The latest leak to me is the least suprising. The best thing about it is that it's released just as Obama flies to China to complain about their cyber attacks. http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/06/president-obama-to-press-chinese-president-on-cybersecurity/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 7, 2013 Author Share Posted June 7, 2013 David Simon (Wire creator) makes a much more cogent argument than Toonpack against exactly what these leaks reveal. I disagree, and assume it was written prior to the web revelations as it focuses only on the phone details...but a good read nevertheless. Much more compelling than the depressing anti-Greenwald bile currently spreading around Twitter. http://davidsimon.com/we-are-shocked-shocked/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6434 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Zuckerberg speaks; I want to respond personally to the outrageous press reports about PRISM: Facebook is not and has never been part of any program to give the US or any other government direct access to our servers. We have never received a blanket request or court order from any government agency asking for information or metadata in bulk, like the one Verizon reportedly received. And if we did, we would fight it aggressively. We hadn't even heard of PRISM before yesterday. When governments ask Facebook for data, we review each request carefully to make sure they always follow the correct processes and all applicable laws, and then only provide the information if is required by law. We will continue fighting aggressively to keep your information safe and secure. We strongly encourage all governments to be much more transparent about all programs aimed at keeping the public safe. It's the only way to protect everyone's civil liberties and create the safe and free society we all want over the long term. Edited June 7, 2013 by trophyshy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6434 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 (edited) Facebook allegedly have a presence at Bilderberg this weekend, so I trust Mark will be revealing all about that too. Edited June 7, 2013 by trophyshy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6434 Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Anonymous have weighed in too http://gizmodo.com/anonymous-just-leaked-a-trove-of-nsa-documents-511854773 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Zuckerberg speaks; I did not inhale, I did not have sexual relations with that woman, they did not have direct access to our servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6434 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Fascinating stuff, the president of the USA admits it and the presidents of Google and Facebook deny it. What is the truth and who has the most to lose? There's no way I'm spending £400 on a networked camera so these goons can fight over who watches me knocking one out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5904 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Firstly, did anyone think this wasn't already happening? Secondly, if it bothers you that much delete your Facebook account, stop buying things online and pay for things in shops with cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 and communicate only in person and live in the woods and wear a tinfoil hat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Firstly, did anyone think this wasn't already happening? Secondly, if it bothers you that much delete your Facebook account, stop buying things online and pay for things in shops with cash. See my long post earlier. I am not worried about my individual details bring observed. Its an impossibility to observe everyone with human eyes anyway. The concern to me is about population profiling and the subversion of democracy. Closing my gmail account would do nothing about that. Its the behavior of government that needs changing. Not the behavior of citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SloopJohn 0 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 My friend's Dad is at Bilderberg this week. He's a fucking tosspot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5904 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Regimes have ruled over nations since the human race began. We could always revolt and overthrow the government but what do you put in place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 (edited) See my long post earlier. I am not worried about my individual details bring observed. Its an impossibility to observe everyone with human eyes anyway. The concern to me is about population profiling and the subversion of democracy. Closing my gmail account would do nothing about that. Its the behavior of government that needs changing. Not the behavior of citizens. Govt will always get away with as much as they can...It's a self-serving elite with it's nose in the trough, that's how America works: Congress, Senators all of them are by any standards wealth men with fingers in pies and they want to stay there as priveledge is often passed down. It isn't Govt anymore imo it's a kind of franchise, a franchise that will do anything to stay in power while casting paranoid looks over their shoulders at the population that is pretty much in the dark. They think Superman/Batman/Jesus is coming to save them. Edited June 8, 2013 by Park Life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3977 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 David Simon (Wire creator) makes a much more cogent argument than Toonpack against exactly what these leaks reveal. I disagree, and assume it was written prior to the web revelations as it focuses only on the phone details...but a good read nevertheless. Much more compelling than the depressing anti-Greenwald bile currently spreading around Twitter. http://davidsimon.com/we-are-shocked-shocked/ I think trying to compare a few coppers listening to hours of tapes looking for drug deals with banks of computers analysing digital content is a bit daft though I accept that content access may not be universal. Having said that, I think just the tracking elements and lifestyle profiling as described by HF is as wrong as listening to/reading the content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 I think trying to compare a few coppers listening to hours of tapes looking for drug deals with banks of computers analysing digital content is a bit daft though I accept that content access may not be universal. Having said that, I think just the tracking elements and lifestyle profiling as described by HF is as wrong as listening to/reading the content. There's no evidence to say they do that as yet like. I just see it as the logical way it would be used by a tricky dicky type if they are allowed to profile as they seem to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Another Day, another huge scoop. "Boundless Informant" is the tool they use to collate the data mined globally. 97 BILLION pieces of intelligence gathered globally in March 2013. The US is monitored more than Russia... Intelligence official lied to congress (a crime) when the said they could not get figures on how much surveilance was underway in the US. Read the full story... http://www.guardian....obal-datamining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Germany still the most surveiled country in Europe? The old fears die hard apparently. Stay frosty Parky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Regimes have ruled over nations since the human race began. We could always revolt and overthrow the government but what do you put in place? Someone else. Nixon was forced to resign having ordered the theft of confidential information on one US citizen. Obama is overseing private information being collected from millions of innocent civilians. The replacement should then be in fear of the law, not beyond it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5904 Posted June 8, 2013 Share Posted June 8, 2013 Someone else that has been cultivated for years by the same regime? Yeah, that'll work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Someone else that has been cultivated for years by the same regime? Yeah, that'll work We might as well not jail murderers then eh. Someone else will just do murders. Jesus wept. The apathy towards government criminality, and the criminalization of whistleblowing shouldn't still surprise me. But its one thing to be jaded about it, its another thing altogether to ask for it to be swept under the carpet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 8, 2013 Author Share Posted June 8, 2013 Adam Hart Davis took the picture used in the prism logo. http://gawker.com/a-british-television-host-took-the-photo-used-in-the-ns-512093707 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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