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Anorthernsoul
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BBC Syrian activists have one of the pilots. I hope to god nothing happens to him.

 

BBC are quoting AlJazz.

 

Turkmen rebels have killed one pilot (not confirmed yet)....

Edited by Park Life
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Putin warns Turkey of “significant consequences”.

Speaking ahead of his meeting with King Abdullah II of Jordan in Sochi, the Russian leader said:

This event is beyond the normal framework of fighting against terrorism. Of course our military is doing heroic work against terrorism... But the loss today is a stab in the back, carried out by the accomplices of terrorists. I can’t describe it in any other way. Our aircraft was downed over the territory of Syria, using air-to-air missile from a Turkish F-16. It fell on the Syrian territory 4km from Turkey.

Neither our pilots nor our jet threatened the territory of Turkey. This is obvious. They are fighting terrorists in the northern areas around Latakia, where militants are located, mainly people who originated in Russia, and they were pursuing their direct duty, to make sure these people do not return to Russia. These are people who are clearly international terrorists.

Taking into account that we signed an agreement on deconflicting with the US, and as we know Turkey was among the ones that has joined the US coalition. Since Isis has such huge resources of hundreds of millions and billions of dollars coming from illicit oil sales, and they are protected by the armed forces of other states, then it’s clear why they are so brazen, why they are killing people, why they are carrying out terrorist attacks throughout the world including in the heart of Europe.

We will analyse everything, and today’s tragic event will have significant consequences, including for Russia-Turkish relations. We have always treated Turkey as a friendly state. I don’t know who was interested in what happened today, certainly not us. And instead of immediately getting in contact with us, as far as we know, the Turkish side immediately turned to their partners from Nato to discuss this incident, as if we shot down their plane and not they ours.

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5live saying that Russia has been murdering innocents in Turkmenistan??.....anything in that @@Park Life ?....

 

If the Turks pulled this shit off their own backs then they're cheeky fuckers....if NATO put them up to it then it's virtually an act of war...

Turkey has been supporting the rebels in Turkmenistan for a couple of years now in their fight against Assad. Turkey opened their prisons to supply more nutters to these ranks.

 

Turkey dreams of taking this bit of Syria. I don't know the specifics but there would have been some civilian casualties if there are airstrikes by Russia. Turkey has been facilitating Jihad in the region as part of its strategy to get Assad out and also get the Qatari gas pipeline going which Assad said no to (soon after of course the area was beseiged by Jihadi's with Qatari money and Saudi arms).

 

NATO need to step away from this. You don't shoot down Russian planes even if they have flirted with your airspace. I guess they think NATO has their back. We'll see.

 

Expect Russia will look at every conceivable way to retaliate without starting a full scale war with NATO. Arming the Kurds would be one of them.

 

And those in the area celebrating shooting the Russian pilots while they were parachuting down are about to meet a new kind of hell.

Edited by Park Life
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They showed the flight path on the news before. Released from the Turks. Got to say the incursion looked very minor, I don't really get this at all.

 

How would Russian fighters fare against US hers do you think Parky? Balanced fight or a turkey shoot ( pardon the pun).

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Yeah but I don't think this is about an isolated incident, more to do with Russia's repeated incursions into Turkish airspace since September and refusal to follow the orders of the Turkish airforce. The authorisation to shoot will have come from high up the chain of command.

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They showed the flight path on the news before. Released from the Turks. Got to say the incursion looked very minor, I don't really get this at all.

 

How would Russian fighters fare against US hers do you think Parky? Balanced fight or a turkey shoot ( pardon the pun).

I hope to God NATO and Russia talk this through.

 

The latest Russian fighters are as good as anything Turkey has and better (F-15), the Russian pilots would be superior. The Mig29, SU47 Beirkut and PAK T-50 have some advantages over NATO counterparts but NATO fighters have slightly better radar and stealth. The Russians have slightly better fire and forget range of missiles to engage from distance. All wargames suggest that Russia would quickly over run central europe before America could bring to bear its full arsenal. Russia would go nuke first.

In this scenario China would seize the chance to take the bits in The South China sea (Taiwan and so on..) Might even have a crack at Japan.

NATO wouldn't be able to fight on two fronts.

Errr...And we'd all be dead in the first week.

Edited by Park Life
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Would a military retaliation from Russia automatically drag the rest of NATO into any conflict?

 

Technically either we'd fucking have to, or we'd have to say that the whole NATO treaty is a sham and admit that we're afraid of a confrontation with Russia.

 

That said, I'm still not convinced by the Russian military - as a country they're already entirely encircled by the US. Parky, you mentioned a war on multiple fronts but that's exactly what Russia would get too. Can it really take Europe and the US combined - especially with US military bases in Europe? Also, China would surely be checked by India and I'm convinced that Japan haven't just been sitting on their hands for the last 50 years as far as militaristic arming goes. It's worth noting that China only have one aircraft carrier and it's still being repaired - would China really risk going head to head with the US Pacific fleet with such a flimsy navy?

 

Worst case scenario to my mind is a Sino-Russian alliance, but I just don't know if I see it. I reckon the West has it in it to contain this if it happens, but we'd probably lose mainland Europe in the process, and the whole world would go to shit.

 

That said, like fuck is anyone going to let it come to this :lol:

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You seriously think there are chances of that scenario you've described panning out Parky? :lol:

Even if this thing escalated into war I doubt Russia would go direct marching into Europe since they wont be able to hold back the Americans for long. What would they be planning to achieve anyway. Doesnt make any sense.

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