Happy Face 29 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Apart from Newcastle look at their Premier League seasons prior to Europe, their seasons in Europe, and their seasons after Europe. The differences are not even worth talking about. I did this before... http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/34250-happy-faces-numbers/page-2#entry1201820 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 AVB's problem at Spurs is the support not the players. They are sick to the back teeth of his conservative tactics. You could hear them towared the end of our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Cloughy wasn't a shit manager, but he couldn't break the player power at Leeds either. The manager has to have total control of his players. When the club back players over the manager it's a downward spiral. Even a respected man like Robson was weakened by Shepherd refusing to get in line with him over Shearer. Well exactly, that's just a continuation of my point. Well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I did this before... http://www.toontastic.net/board/topic/34250-happy-faces-numbers/page-2#entry1201820 If you've got time could you do the points difference and make it before, during and after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donaldstott 0 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I don't think playing in Europe is a fitness issue, but it can be a tactical issue and one of momentum. When you are playing well it can actually be an advantage to be playing twice a week - see our Championship season. It's when you are not playing well that it's hard to dedicate time to improving attack wise/eradicating mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I'll be blogging this later. It's been a good week for Newcastle, a brilliant week, and I suppose Pardew deserves some praise irrespective of how lucky we were second half against Tottenham. Even a draw would've been a canny result. I wish he'd shut up about the effect Europe has on players though. Lets have a look at the MASSIVE IMPACT Europe has had on other teams Stoke City 10/11 (without European football) 46 points 11/12 (with European football) 45 points 12/13 (without European football) 41 points. They did better when they weren't even in Europe. Aston Villa 08/09 (without European football) 6th 09/10 (with European football) 6th 10/11 (with European football) 9th 11/12 (without European football) 16th Their 2011/2012 season they finished 26 point worse off without European football than when they were in it. Fulham 08/09 (without European football) 53 points 09/10 (with European football) 46 points 10/11 (without European football) 49 points 11/12 (with European football) 52 points 12/13 (without European football) 43 points Actually NINE points worse off when they weren't in Europe than when they were Everton 06/07 (without European football) 58 points 07/08 (with European football) 65 points 08/09 (with European football) 63 points 09/10 (without European football) 61 points Everton actually generated LESS points in the two seasons they were out of Europe, than the two seasons they were in it. As Villas-Boas said, it's a load of bollocks and a shit excuse. Squads should be big enough to deal with it, the fact Tottenham were better in the second half only emphasise his point. It's a lazy excuse. You just need to look at 02/03 for us. http://nufc.com/html/2002-03fixtures.html 16 league games after Midweek European fixtures P16 W14 D2 L0. If you look at the link I provided. We played the mackems 56 hours after playing in Kiev, and won. Played WBA four days after being in Italy and won and so on. I couldn't agree more with Villas Boas, and the point becomes even more solid when you think in our case last season and certainly Tottenham's case, in many of these games we were starting with 7 and 8 players who weren't starting league games. Pardew should have a first class honours degree in excuses, and be doing lectures about them at Oxford University. Did Sir Bobby Robson moan? The thing is about the Champions League as well is you are more inclined to play your best side. How many times did we play our strongest eleven, especially in the early rounds? Some of the games there was no more than four first teamers last season. We started last season (like we have this season) basically signing nobody, and there's no way in the world he was happy with the situation. The only reason that fat bastard gave him money in the January is because it's easier to spend £22m on players than lose £70m with the threat of relegation. I've got no respect for Pardew, none at all. Fair enough it's nigh on impossible for him to say "yeah I'll be honest, Mike is a fat faakin caant", but "that ones for Mike", fuck off man. I'll never ever respect him, he should fuck off and take Max Clifford's job. The Europa League is a massive excuse. He thinks ahead Pardew he really does. If we come 5th, 6th or 7th this season, "it's great to av this magnificent claab and these suppowtuss who I regard as the best in the wewwd, back where they belong plyyin European footboww". On the other hand if we come 8th, 9th, 10th etc..."weww in saam wise its a massive relief, we aww saw what that Europah League dahn to us the avva season". Don't ever be fooled be him, he has excuses ready made for situations that haven't even happened yet, not even talking about the potential of European football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Agree completely Stevie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I only count 14 european games at your link [/editor] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I only count 14 european games at your link [/editor]/poetic license Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think everyone accepts there is an impact from playing a dozen or so more games, of all the added travel, of the reduced preparation time for each game. But Pardew is the only one who tells his players they will be tired, that he doesn't expect them to embrace the extra games...because that's what you've worked your whole life towards...playing football at the top....in European competition. You can see references to the effect of Europe in the comments from Bobby in the .com reports Stevie links to, but it's always to build the players up, rather than to lower expectations on them. AVB and Laudrup make the same sounds Robson did. Pardew is in a field of one amongst football men being all pissy about the Europa. He takes his lead on that from Mike Ashley, who doesn't see the return/benefit from being in that competition. "It didn't help that it took us four-and-a-half hours from City Airport to our hotel. We could have driven down quicker. We look at their tiredness, we look at those looking weary and we get the right response from the players. "We have good motivation and we've got good character in the team - and we've got that pace. You can have ability but pace plus ability is essential." Spot on Sir Berb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13836 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Is it just me that thinks comparing Alan Pardew with Sir Bobby Robson is a little bit farcical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj 17 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 If AVB was such a psychologically brilliant manager, he wouldn't have lost the Chelsea dressing room in about 4 months, and Spurs would have found the confidence to score more. Pardew isn't great by any stretch, but he has just beaten the master and the apprentice in straight games, and has in general fostered better team spirit than this club has had in a long time. Without actually being in the club, it's hard to say whether or not the Europa League has an effect. All we can do is speculate really - but Swansea certainly seem to have lost their way - I get the point about fitness, but what about things like match preparation? If you normally have 5/6 days to prepare for your next league match, doesn't that go out of the window if you have a game on Thursday? You would only have 1 or 2 full days to prepare for your next league game (i.e. managing tactics and individual player strategies etc). The team spirit last season looked utterly abysmal and was the worst I've seen at this club for a very long time. Chris Hughton was the one that created a great spirit within the team and Pardew sold all of those who were part of that due to their supposed influence behind the scenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Is it just me that thinks comparing Alan Pardew with Sir Bobby Robson is a little bit farcical? Other lesser managers take their lead from him, was the point. It's not about tactical nuance or massive experience. It's basic. You build your players up, not scare them from qualifying for Europe again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The team spirit last season looked utterly abysmal and was the worst I've seen at this club for a very long time. Chris Hughton was the one that created a great spirit within the team and Pardew sold all of those who were part of that due to their supposed influence behind the scenes. I agree with that but on the other hand the team spirit does seem a lot better now (the derby being the one massive exception where it seemed to disapear again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 http://moderndaydoilum.wordpress.com/2013/11/13/pardew-the-man-who-wrote-the-book-on-excuses/ reet thats it finished with another two paragrapghs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Other lesser managers take their lead from him, was the point. It's not about tactical nuance or massive experience. It's basic. You build your players up, not scare them from qualifying for Europe again. Is it not also fair to say though, that he's striving to relieve pressure? If he tore into them every time they lost, saying that they should have no excuses, he'd probably do far more damage. These are footballers with fragile egos after all. And they're mostly French in our team for crying out loud - the French have always responded well to a dressing down by some Cockney git I'm sure. Does Pardew tell his players that they can't win a game before hand? I don't know, I've only ever heard him excuse them after they've lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4964 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Just to add to that, Fergie never criticised his players in games and always, always made excuses for them. And he's giving lectures at Harvard on people management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13836 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Other lesser managers take their lead from him, was the point. It's not about tactical nuance or massive experience. It's basic. You build your players up, not scare them from qualifying for Europe again. I think there's multiple aspects to it. I would think prior experience in European competition would come into it - which I'm not sure Pardew has had before & of course there's the managers pedigree as a player - or who he learned his trade from i.e Mourinho worked with Robson & so did Villas-Boas - who of course later worked for Mourinho too. So at the age when Pardew was working as a glacier, Villas-Boas was taking tips from Bobby Robson. I think we had a decent European run anyway - we were a couple of unlucky Cisse shots from the semi final - I suppose you could also look at the individual errors of Taylor/Santon from that game. The club clearly can't be arsed with it - and I'm not surprised Pardew talks negatively about it given it clearly did affect us - I'm fairly sure Cisse was playing the last few games of the relegation battle we invited ourselves into with a broken rib ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Is it not also fair to say though, that he's striving to relieve pressure? If he tore into them every time they lost, saying that they should have no excuses, he'd probably do far more damage. These are footballers with fragile egos after all. And they're mostly French in our team for crying out loud - the French have always responded well to a dressing down by some Cockney git I'm sure. Does Pardew tell his players that they can't win a game before hand? I don't know, I've only ever heard him excuse them after they've lost. He was saying before the man City game we weren't expecting anything from it. But it's not a case of ripping into his players in any way. He has this bee in his bonnet about proving to everyone that he wasn't at fault for last season...so after winning 2 on the bounce against top quality opposition like Chelsea and Spurs, rather than praise the players and reiterate what we are capable of if we work together and think big, he belittles the team and the opposition by harking back to his old Europa woes, suggesting AVB and Laudrup are suffering like he did last year. It's small time pissy shit that he should leave to others to defend him on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13836 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 He was saying before the man City game we weren't expecting anything from it. But it's not a case of ripping into his players in any way. He has this bee in his bonnet about proving to everyone that he wasn't at fault for last season...so after winning 2 on the bounce against top quality opposition like Chelsea and Spurs, rather than praise the players and reiterate what we are capable of if we work together and think big, he belittles the team and the opposition by harking back to his old Europa woes, suggesting AVB and Laudrup are suffering like he did last year. It's small time pissy shit that he should leave to others to defend him on. "Wow. I think he is the best goalie in Holland and I think he proved that today. His performance level has not needed to be high recently as we have not come under that sort of pressure too often, but we did today. Certainly in the second half Tottenham really turned up the heat and he answered almost everything - it was an unbelievable performance. We did similar to what we did when we won against Chelsea. The first save was the best - Soldado's header. The sun was low - and it kick-started from there. Mapou Yanga-Mbiwa put his body on the line to clear one and it shows the commitment, from the back five to the strikers. "I think we have played better - against Sunderland we played well and lost. If we keep a clean sheet we can win games. "I thought Remy had a great chance before he scored and I was a little bit surprised he did not take that because he really is in great form. But the second one he made no mistake with and it gave us a platform for the win. He has got a silkiness to the way he moves and a nice kind of gait, the way he runs and everything. He really is a classy-looking performer, which is great if you back it up with goals. "It kind of elevates him and he stands out, but I thought Shola Ameobi was terrific in the 60 minutes he played. He was as important as Loic, I thought. "I thought in the first half, for an away team, we deserved the lead. We hit them on the break. We had a few chances. I don’t think they caused us real anxiety, apart from a few shots from the outside of the box. "The second half was different. We became a little bit too deep, and they turned up the heat. They passed it very, very well and we had to ride our luck a little bit thanks to a fantastic goalie and two centre-halves who are bang in form. "We ended up getting a clean sheet, which is a marvellous, marvellous result. Loic’s in red-hot form. I thought he would score the first one. You just don’t expect him to miss. "For the second one he was calm and went round the goalie. He gave us a platform to win the game. "It was a side to us we will need if we are going to win more games away. It was our third win away and did not have that many last year. We have shown that desire and spirit in those three games. "We rewarded them (the fans). All the guys who got up early and were on 6.30am trains from Newcastle. It was a tough old day to get here but they supported us as they always do – brilliantly – so it was great reward for them. "I am the manager of the football team, I am just trying to get performances that are worthy of our fans. I think we have the best fans in the world - we have two home games coming up and we have got ourselves in a fantastic position.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Thought Pardew had said Spurs were feeling the effects of Europa...but can't find any quotes. Anyone got them? I'm giving the poor lad massive stick when I've not even heard what he had to say....on Stevie's word, and he's full of poetic license Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13836 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 I think he did have a rattle on about that but he may have been asked about it. He might have been supporting Villas-Boas or making excuses for himself. He's said enough to praise both teams in my opinion. Either way I'm enjoying the last two results without thinking about Pardew's crack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howmanheyman 26775 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The team spirit last season looked utterly abysmal and was the worst I've seen at this club for a very long time. Chris Hughton was the one that created a great spirit within the team and Pardew sold all of those who were part of that due to their supposed influence behind the scenes. Sorry, Tooj, I'm no apologist for Pardew but to say he sold those players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McFaul 35 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Thought Pardew had said Spurs were feeling the effects of Europa...but can't find any quotes. Anyone got them? I'm giving the poor lad massive stick when I've not even heard what he had to say....on Stevie's word, and he's full of poetic license He said it on Sky after the game, and AVB told him to pipe down five minutes later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 The question he was asked was "Honesty and hard work you talk about, from your players, how pleased were you to see that from them?" So he was chomping at the bit to twist a question towards it. 1:54 http://www1.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/9019590/pardew:-krul-one-of-the-best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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