Politics

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Miliband has played a blinder regarding the SNP - any accusations of Sturgeon holding him to ransom are now pure scaremongering propaganda.

 

He can't go back on his word regarding coalitions/deals with the SNP - or Labour will be unelectable for a generation

 

However assuming opinion polls are correct, the Conservative party, even with Lib Dem's, UKIP and the DUP totalled in, will fall short of the total needed for a majority. So Labour + the SNP (and quite likely the Lib Dems, although it's not necessary for them to do so) will vote down the Tory Queen Speech, allowing Miliband to propose his - which would then be accepted.

 

The SNP are basically in a corner, they cannot return to Scotland having A. supported a Tory Queen Speech or B. failed to have backed a Labour Queen Speech. The SNP will be forced to back a Labour manifesto - or have to return to their own electorate having allowed another 5 years of Tory rule, which would be suicide.

 

AND, Miliband knows the few things in his manifesto that the SNP won't back in the HOC such as Trident, will be backed by the Tories anyway. So the SNP in effect will have no influence over policy whatsoever.

 

I could be very wrong, but this might have backfired for the Tories tremendously.

Really?

 

If the conservatives have the biggest share of the vote and the most MP's they can go ahead with a queens speech and dare it to be voted down by Labour and the SNP.

 

This would basically then be played as Scotland getting rid of an English voted government to allow Milliband in.

 

While this is legal, it could badly damage Labour in England, particularly the vast number of seats where there's not a lot in it.

 

They would be crucified at the next election.

 

Also, for all Sturgeons nice face of the SNP, when Salmond starts running the show at Westminster, milliband will have to run everything by him.

 

Vote Tory lads, save the country.

[Monkeys Fist 38682]

Aye, ok then.

[TheDimpleboy 0]

Really?

 

If the conservatives have the biggest share of the vote and the most MP's they can go ahead with a queens speech and dare it to be voted down by Labour and the SNP.

 

This would basically then be played as Scotland getting rid of an English voted government to allow Milliband in.

 

While this is legal, it could badly damage Labour in England, particularly the vast number of seats where there's not a lot in it.

 

They would be crucified at the next election.

 

Also, for all Sturgeons nice face of the SNP, when Salmond starts running the show at Westminster, milliband will have to run everything by him.

 

Vote Tory lads, save the country.

 

I noticed you completely ignored my previous post in which I quoted you. Wonder why. Fancy addressing the points I made there? Particularly regarding the economy?

 

The share of the vote is irrelevant - if they have a problem with the FPTP system then they can drive for electoral reform - they don't though.

 

I have no tribal politics. I've already voted, by post, for UKIP, for reasons I've already outlined on this thread - but my god I'd rather a Labour government than a Tory one. For what it's worth, I think the SNP are tits, and I wouldn't feel comfortable if they had real influence in our government. But for the reasons I've outlined above - they won't.

 

I was brought up to strive for a country where we look after the most vulnerable in society - not shit on them.

 

Fuck the Tories.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

 

I noticed you completely ignored my previous post in which I quoted you. Wonder why. Fancy addressing the points I made there? Particularly regarding the economy?

 

The share of the vote is irrelevant - if they have a problem with the FPTP system then they can drive for electoral reform - they don't though.

 

I have no tribal politics. I've already voted, by post, for UKIP, for reasons I've already outlined on this thread - but my god I'd rather a Labour government than a Tory one. For what it's worth, I think the SNP are tits, and I wouldn't feel comfortable if they had real influence in our government. But for the reasons I've outlined above - they won't.

 

I was brought up to strive for a country where we look after the most vulnerable in society - not shit on them.

 

Fuck the Tories.

There's little point arguing policy because as you know and as we see on every political programme, facts and statistics can be argued every way. (Although 2 million EXTRA jobs when most on here were forecasting 1 million LESS jobs, is probably the exception to that rule).

 

It's not a case of FPTP, it's how English voters will feel if that happens. At the last election the Conservatives had 61 more seats in England than all the other parties put together.

 

Labour could get the same treatment at the next election as the Lib Dems are scared about this time.

[Gemmill 34335]

Really?

 

If the conservatives have the biggest share of the vote and the most MP's they can go ahead with a queens speech and dare it to be voted down by Labour and the SNP.

 

This would basically then be played as Scotland getting rid of an English voted government to allow Milliband in.

 

While this is legal, it could badly damage Labour in England, particularly the vast number of seats where there's not a lot in it.

 

They would be crucified at the next election.

 

Also, for all Sturgeons nice face of the SNP, when Salmond starts running the show at Westminster, milliband will have to run everything by him.

 

Vote Tory lads, save the country.

Dare them to vote it down? Of course they'll vote it down you tit.

 

Also, you do realise that Scotland is part of the UK right?

 

You're just regurgitating the desperate shit that Cameron has been spouting the last few days.

[Gemmill 34335]

There's little point arguing policy because as you know and as we see on every political programme, facts and statistics can be argued every way. (Although 2 million EXTRA jobs when most on here were forecasting 1 million LESS jobs, is probably the exception to that rule).

 

It's not a case of FPTP, it's how English voters will feel if that happens. At the last election the Conservatives had 61 more seats in England than all the other parties put together.

 

Labour could get the same treatment at the next election as the Lib Dems are scared about this time.

you're as embarrassing as Cameron.

[NJS 3973]

Any response as to why your 2m extra jobs haven't restored tax receipt levels to pre-crisis levels ct?

[Renton 17722]

England is far from homogeneous though, so I don't think that argument makes any sense. I certainly feel more Scottish than southern English.

 

One way or another regional identity and fairness has to be addressed one day, the Scottish going it alone is not the solution though imo.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Renton

[PaddockLad 14574]

Maybe, but what choice do Labour have? The can't be seen to working with a party that'll ultimately split the union, they'd be massacred in England if that happened.

 

I honestly don't understand what the Scot's problem with Labour is. Under Labour, they were given devolution and more power is coming their way. But they voted no to full independence in the referendum, which was meant to be a once in a generation chance. And now they are landsliding towards a result which won't benefit any of us and is increasingly alienating the English.

 

Scottish parliamentry elections next year....Sturgeon completely dodged answering when Jeremy Vine asked her yesterday point blank if there would be another referendum in their manifesto. Am sure KCG will be delighted to let us know if theyre going to put the rest of us through it again..

[Gemmill 34335]

I don't see on what basis they could have another referendum though. It looked ropey last time when it was based entirely on the oil industry and that has shit the bed since the No vote. What economic basis is there for them to go it alone now, when the industry that was supposed to underpin the country is in turmoil.

 

I think another referendum so soon after the last one would result in another No and would then genuinely have to be put to bed for a generation. Which is the last thing the SNP should be looking for.

[PaddockLad 14574]

They're not acting as if they won last year as such, but they are sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "WE CANT HEAR YOU!!" when you point out that the same silent 55% majority are still there and are still unlikely to vote for them.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3187]

 

Miliband has played a blinder regarding the SNP - any accusations of Sturgeon holding him to ransom are now pure scaremongering propaganda.

 

He can't go back on his word regarding coalitions/deals with the SNP - or Labour will be unelectable for a generation

 

However assuming opinion polls are correct, the Conservative party, even with Lib Dem's, UKIP and the DUP totalled in, will fall short of the total needed for a majority. So Labour + the SNP (and quite likely the Lib Dems, although it's not necessary for them to do so) will vote down the Tory Queen Speech, allowing Miliband to propose his - which would then be accepted.

 

The SNP are basically in a corner, they cannot return to Scotland having A. supported a Tory Queen Speech or B. failed to have backed a Labour Queen Speech. The SNP will be forced to back a Labour manifesto - or have to return to their own electorate having allowed another 5 years of Tory rule, which would be suicide.

 

AND, Miliband knows the few things in his manifesto that the SNP won't back in the HOC such as Trident, will be backed by the Tories anyway. So the SNP in effect will have no influence over policy whatsoever.

 

I could be very wrong, but this might have backfired for the Tories tremendously.

In Scotland which for the SNP is the endgame in all this it would be suicide for Labour to do anything which relied on Tory backing. All the SNP has to do is go against anything the Tories do.

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3187]

@KCG

 

Compared to northern England the Scots get a fantastic deal from Westminster. If you think Labour are the same as the conservatives, you kind of make the point that a workable arrangement is unachievable. Tbh though KCG I think your views are quite extreme and emotionally led.

I get annoyed when people like you make uneducated bollocks statements about the Scottish people based on your own prejudice. The Scottish have had the shittiest end of the stick for centuries look at the highland clearances and the scottish diaspora. In 1974 Oil was gound in Scotland. The proceeds of which fuelled Thatcherism and nobody suffered more under Thatcher than Scotland. Remember I am from the North East and my family was involved in the miners strike and I've seen what has been done in Scotland.

[Park Life 70]

I get annoyed when people like you make uneducated bollocks statements about the Scottish people based on your own prejudice. The Scottish have had the shittiest end of the stick for centuries look at the highland clearances and the scottish diaspora. In 1974 Oil was gound in Scotland. The proceeds of which fuelled Thatcherism and nobody suffered more under Thatcher than Scotland. Remember I am from the North East and my family was involved in the miners strike and I've seen what has been done in Scotland.

Think you lot got off lightly for a colony.

[Renton 17722]

I get annoyed when people like you make uneducated bollocks statements about the Scottish people based on your own prejudice. The Scottish have had the shittiest end of the stick for centuries look at the highland clearances and the scottish diaspora. In 1974 Oil was gound in Scotland. The proceeds of which fuelled Thatcherism and nobody suffered more under Thatcher than Scotland. Remember I am from the North East and my family was involved in the miners strike and I've seen what has been done in Scotland.

I'm half Scottish too and have already stated I feel a greater affinity to Scotland than England. I'd like to live in Scotland but that's not going to be possible for me. For selfish reasons then I'd prefer the union to remain intact and for Scotland to exert a balancing influence on England. But it works both ways and I simply think the SNP's case for independence is massively flawed.

 

Yes, if the union survives it means you will have to put up with shitty conservative governments half the time. But at least you have devolution. Why you don't recognise what Labour gave Scotland or why you see them the same as the conservatives is beyond me. I simply don't get it.

[Renton 17722]

In Scotland which for the SNP is the endgame in all this it would be suicide for Labour to do anything which relied on Tory backing. All the SNP has to do is go against anything the Tories do.

How's that going to work with less than 60 seats?

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3187]

I'm half Scottish too and have already stated I feel a greater affinity to Scotland than England. I'd like to live in Scotland but that's not going to be possible for me. For selfish reasons then I'd prefer the union to remain intact and for Scotland to exert a balancing influence on England. But it works both ways and I simply think the SNP's case for independence is massively flawed.

 

Yes, if the union survives it means you will have to put up with shitty conservative governments half the time. But at least you have devolution. Why you don't recognise what Labour gave Scotland or why you see them the same as the conservatives is beyond me. I simply don't get it.

Then try researching it.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

Any response as to why your 2m extra jobs haven't restored tax receipt levels to pre-crisis levels ct?

27 million given a tax cut

 

3 million taken out of tax altogether

 

Then there's the million plus, better paid, public sector jobs that had to go clear the mess.

 

Then there's all the public sector / private sector employees who have had to forgo pay rises to clear the mess.

 

If only there hadn't been a mess to clear up.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

England is far from homogeneous though, so I don't think that argument makes any sense. I certainly feel more Scottish than southern English.

 

One way or another regional identity and fairness has to be addressed one day, the Scottish going it alone is not the solution though imo.

The Scottish will be gone before the next election. There's no way Labour or Tories will want it around if they're just going to send SNP's from now on.

[Dr Gloom 19784]

27 million given a tax cut

 

3 million taken out of tax altogether

 

Then there's the million plus, better paid, public sector jobs that had to go clear the mess.

 

Then there's all the public sector / private sector employees who have had to forgo pay rises to clear the mess.

 

If only there hadn't been a mess to clear up.

 

so no then

[Tom 13830]

[Christmas Tree 3997]

 

so no then

Which bit didn't you understand. It was fairly straightforward

[Dr Gloom 19784]

If only there hadn't been a mess to clear up.

 

the mess was a result of the global financial crisis. the tory opposition backed labour's spending plans and the country wouldn't have been in a better economic position when lehman went under had they been in power. the collapse of the global banking system and the ensuing sovereign debt crisis was the mess whichever party would have to clear up and to be fair to gordon brown, he led the world on that front.

 

the big difference between the two parties is the way the recovery would have been handled, or mishandled in osborne's case.

[Christmas Tree 3997]

 

the mess was a result of the global financial crisis. the tory opposition backed labour's spending plans and the country wouldn't have been in a better economic position when lehman went under had they been in power. the collapse of the global banking system and the ensuing sovereign debt crisis was the mess whichever party would have to clear up and to be fair to gordon brown, he led the world on that front.

 

the big difference between the two parties is the way the recovery would have been handled, or mishandled in osborne's case.

Darlings and Osbournes plans for 2010-2015 were virtually identical.

[Dr Gloom 19784]

Which bit didn't you understand. It was fairly straightforward

 

i was just laughing at the way you completely ignored the question, so i'll put it to you again - if we are experiencing a real and sustainable recovery, why is productivity so stubbornly low?

 

i'll tell you why - austerity has been a complete and utter failure.