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19 minutes ago, NJS said:

You're right but I think it's fair enough to point out that despite being a great war leader, he was a racist, bordering on fascist bastard. 

Who wasn’t back then? The problem is he’s being judged by today’s standards. If you go back through history then I’m sure there aren’t too many who come out squeaky clean.

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16 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

Re: Churchill & Empire. Rees Mogg going into bat for him last night on QT elicited this response on a well known social media site...

 

 

 

 

I saw that on QT last night. He really compared British concentration camps, which he claimed were beneficial the natives, were no worse than living in Glasgow. Really. And people applauded. Really. 

 

Nobody bats an eyelid. This is where we are now. We have a massive problem. 

Edited by Renton
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There was a woman practically in tears in the audience explaining why her high tech chemical company would have to move or close if we had a hard Brexit. Not a single fuck was given by the panel. Its as if they didn't hear her. JRM made up some anecdote about a chemical  company who he claims would benefit from the reduction in red tape. And that was that. 

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Chukkas chucking it in then...

 

BBC News - Several Labour MPs about to resign, say party sources
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47274905

 

Interesting to see Labour also as catastrophically split and it's mps acting in their own narrow self interest as the Tories are. 

 

On a slightly more disappointing note I fear this news will see the return of CT to the TT political debating chamber today :cuppa:

 

 

 

Edited by PaddockLad
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3 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Are they acting in their own self-interest or are they sick of the leadership continually ignoring the wishes of their MPs and the party membership?

 

Not denying that for a minute but will  this see a Tory PM being returned at the first post Brexit GE?  That's my issue. They destroy the democratic fabric of this country yet remain in control. 

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Assuming that they’ll sit as independents rather than starting a new party then a lot can happen between now and the next election. Labour have been twiddling their thumbs while the Tories have been fucking up Brexit. It’s about time someone did something in an attempt to wake them from their slumber.

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If they all continue to vote the right way then it doesn't even matter. Mostly symbolic.

 

I dont see any route for them back into serious power from here though. Maybe they hope to pick up a few others.

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Reading what they're saying mind... its all total shite so far. "The world is more complicated that oppressors and oppressed". Aye it may well be, but that's still a big fucking part of it. Not that you would expect any middle of the road MPs to know that.

 

Getting very clear reminders of why the centre has had its ass handed to it at every turn over the past few years. Grim to think this delusional nonsense is once again 'my team' ...

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Umunna is right that politics is broken, but is he really the man to turn it around? Does he actually think that 'a new party' will somehow fix this?

 

Might end up being another step towards PR though, I guess.

 

 

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Are they getting a backlash? I wouldn't actually have thought anyone would be sad to see them go truthfully, Berger and Umunna have just been a pain in Corbyn's side for months. I'm not even fully aware of who the others are, though Leslie and Smith sound vaguely familiar.

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3 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Corbyn's statement is of course, more of the same stuff he always says. I fucking hate everyone. The end.

They all increased their majorities fighting on that manifesto. 

 

Simple question  - what do they reject and what's their alternative? 

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