Politics

[Howmanheyman 26605]

One thing will probably happen, whoever wins, and I very much hope it's somebody who could get labour into power, I absolutely expect there to be infighting in a way the tories seem to put to one side as they're very much a 'The king is dead, long live the king' as power means everything to them and they'd sell their granny for personal gain. Labour need to get a bit savvy very fast. The trouble is there's too many high profile social media 'activists' who won't let it lie and who put people off. Their hearts are probably in the right place at times but they need to be very much low profile from here on. They won't. 

[Dr Gloom 19735]

It was the way they sneered down their noses at the working classes that repelled those voters. They don’t want to be lectured to by the Islington PC police. Whoever leads needs to understand this.

As distasteful as it might seem to those in a metropolitan bubble, the new leader must be patriotic and proud, tough on crime and immigration and strong on defence and security or they won’t win back the blue collar vote.

That twitter thread i posted on the previous page is essential reading. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Dr Gloom

[Howmanheyman 26605]

 

This fucker doesn't help. Then after she gets rightly pulled up on it comes out with this.....

 

 

'Starmites', 'Corbynites' 'Centrism,' 'Far left' etc. People in around labour seriously need to wind their fucking necks in and get serious. 

[Dr Gloom 19735]

I don’t recall hearing Corbyn calling for much restraint when Iranian militias were helping Bashar Assad murder kids in Syria. Maybe it was because he was paid £20k to appear on Iranian state TV. 

I agree with his sentiment. But he is now a political irrelevance and might want to keep quiet now he has led his party into oblivion. Miles from power and even further from being able to influence world events like this

[Gemmill 34166]

57 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

Starmer/Phillips could be the dream ticket, the only downside being it might be a bit too remainy to appeal to the traditional labour red wall seats, unless they find something else we can blame immigrants for.

 

If Brexit goes as badly as expected I don't think being too remain will be an issue by the time people are next asked to vote. I think if Labour put someone competent in charge who can point out the many, many fuck ups thst Johnson will make over the next 5 years and actually act as an opposition - Starmer/Phillips should fit the bill - then by the time the next election comes around people will be very ready for change. Particularly in the red wall towns and cities that I would guess are about to endure a pretty torrid 5 years. 

[NJS 3960]

1 hour ago, Howmanheyman said:

 

This fucker doesn't help. Then after she gets rightly pulled up on it comes out with this.....

 

 

'Starmites', 'Corbynites' 'Centrism,' 'Far left' etc. People in around labour seriously need to wind their fucking necks in and get serious. 

I might be having a thick day but I honestly don't see any material difference in the two statements. 

[Dr Gloom 19735]

Corbyn’s message, as always, is all about standing up to our real enemy: the evil, imperialist US. 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Dr Gloom

[Renton 17610]

1 hour ago, Gemmill said:

 

If Brexit goes as badly as expected I don't think being too remain will be an issue by the time people are next asked to vote. I think if Labour put someone competent in charge who can point out the many, many fuck ups thst Johnson will make over the next 5 years and actually act as an opposition - Starmer/Phillips should fit the bill - then by the time the next election comes around people will be very ready for change. Particularly in the red wall towns and cities that I would guess are about to endure a pretty torrid 5 years. 

 

I'd be happy with a Starmer Phillips combo, and agree with the above. Guess I'm now a Starmite ffs. 

[Rayvin 4949]

Jess Phillips is tainted by the culture war. I'd like her to be leader in some ways because it would mean we were finally tackling that head on, but i don't think she'd win.

 

All we'd hear about is how she laughed at male suicide rates (along with, apparently, Labour's election results) and the ready made body of work of her being hypocrite in various ways. I don't think she's good enough to move past that. And her Corbyn tantrum bothers me also.

 

On the latter issue, Corbyn's message shows leadership because he's calling a spade, a spade. The US is imperialist and while i dont believe in evil, it's not "good".

 

Either way, still Starmer for me.

[Howmanheyman 26605]

1 hour ago, NJS said:

I might be having a thick day but I honestly don't see any material difference in the two statements. 

They're virtually saying the same but one is being a bit more diplomatic about it and not giving ammo to the those who bullshit about supporting terrorists etc. 

[Rayvin 4949]

13 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Good thread about the fractured left, this. It’s a massive challenge for whoever takes over. Are any of the names in the running brave enough to say in a loud voice "I'M PROUD TO BE BRITISH!”? identity rather than policy is what seems to be the order of things these days

 

Basically agree with this, although I'm gonna point out that saying things like this over the past few years is what gets you called a Nazi and a mysoginist by other people on the left

[Dr Gloom 19735]

32 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

Jess Phillips is tainted by the culture war. I'd like her to be leader in some ways because it would mean we were finally tackling that head on, but i don't think she'd win.

 

All we'd hear about is how she laughed at male suicide rates (along with, apparently, Labour's election results) and the ready made body of work of her being hypocrite in various ways. I don't think she's good enough to move past that. And her Corbyn tantrum bothers me also.

 

On the latter issue, Corbyn's message shows leadership because he's calling a spade, a spade. The US is imperialist and while i dont believe in evil, it's not "good".

 

Either way, still Starmer for me.

Striking that he doesn’t call out Iranian terrorism though. I wonder why?

[Rayvin 4949]

Just now, Dr Gloom said:

Striking that he doesn’t call out Iranian terrorism though. I wonder why?

 

What Iranian terrorism? I haven't followed the build up to this. If Iran had assassinated a major western political leader, do you think Corbyn would have stayed silent? He'd be calling them out and demanding restraint.

[Gemmill 34166]

I think we can stop arguing about Corbyn now. The bloke was an unmitigated failure that led Labour to its worst election result in almost a century. By any measure his period in charge has been a disaster for both his party and the country. 

[Dr Gloom 19735]

Rayvin, the Iranian military head the yanks took out provided support to terrorist groups in Iraq, supported Assad’s slaughter of innocent Syrians and in Washington’s eyes has US blood on his hand, not least with the recent murder of a US civilian contractor.

I’m not saying Corbyn is wrong to condemn the US for potentially marching into war, but it is striking that he always takes the same tone with the western imperialists. Where was the outcry over Iran and Syria? He doesn’t have it in him to condemn them too - remember how he couldn’t bring himself to condemn russia too after the Skripal poisoning? 

Edit - I agree with Gemmill. Let’s stop wasting breath on Corbyn. He was a disaster for the Labour Party and the country as his failure has facilitated a decade of Tory rule and a hard Brexit. 

Back to Labour, this is another great thread - this time about what happened to Labour after 1992 (the last time it lost four elections in a row)

 

Edited January 4, 2020 by Dr Gloom

[Alex 30239]

3 hours ago, Howmanheyman said:

 

This fucker doesn't help. Then after she gets rightly pulled up on it comes out with this.....

 

 

'Starmites', 'Corbynites' 'Centrism,' 'Far left' etc. People in around labour seriously need to wind their fucking necks in and get serious. 

People like that come across as bad as the tories in terms of it being like a game rather than it being about people’s lives 

[strawb 3652]

That Rachel Swindon account is a bloke isn’t it? 

[Howmanheyman 26605]

15 minutes ago, strawb said:

That Rachel Swindon account is a bloke isn’t it? 

No idea?

[Rayvin 4949]

The left and centre has been beaten across the world and is now soul searching and in total retreat. Corbyn was one attempt to fight back and he failed.

 

But this wasn't just about him and his failure in the same way that the banking crisis wasn't just about Labour back then. These are global battles now. Whoever we choose will die on the same hill as Corbyn because no one since Blair has actually understood that this isn't just about petty domestic bullshit anymore. It's internationalism versus isolationism. Whoever we choose needs to be an internationalist but needs to win while somehow appealing to the isolationist voters.

 

I don't think anyone within Labour was capable of navigating that line with Brexit in play, but maybe without it someone can be.

[Dr Gloom 19735]

10 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

The left and centre has been beaten across the world and is now soul searching and in total retreat. Corbyn was one attempt to fight back and he failed.

 

But this wasn't just about him and his failure in the same way that the banking crisis wasn't just about Labour back then. These are global battles now. Whoever we choose will die on the same hill as Corbyn because no one since Blair has actually understood that this isn't just about petty domestic bullshit anymore. It's internationalism versus isolationism. Whoever we choose needs to be an internationalist but needs to win while somehow appealing to the isolationist voters.

 

I don't think anyone within Labour was capable of navigating that line with Brexit in play, but maybe without it someone can be.

The next labour leader needs to talk about immigrants and Muslims in non PC language - don't forget that part

[Dr Gloom 19735]

2 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Basically agree with this, although I'm gonna point out that saying things like this over the past few years is what gets you called a Nazi and a mysoginist by other people on the left

Did you read the whole thread to the end? It’s illuminating 

[Phil 6]

2 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

What Iranian terrorism? I haven't followed the build up to this. If Iran had assassinated a major western political leader, do you think Corbyn would have stayed silent? He'd be calling them out and demanding restraint.

 

You should really read up on the guy they executed.  He funded countless militia groups to carry out attacks like the one on the US consulate link.  This is on top of having half the Iraq government on the payroll link.  And lets not forget taking one of our ships from international water! link

 

Cutting the head off the snake will bring them back down to Earth without causing another power vacuum like the Iraq war.  Its about time the fuckers pulling the stings got executed instead of needless wars.  Iran have called for three days of mourning, but there is very little civilian support within Iran for their military adventures, given most struggle to put food on the table because of the sanctions.

 

Quick hard action to set boundaries (like blowing up Assad's chemical stores) followed with justification and confirmation of no further attacks.  The US have done a sterling job n the middle east.

 

[Anorthernsoul 1221]

Are we taking bets on what target Iran hits first?

 

 

 

Like a Middle Eastern pre-war bingo.

[Gemmill 34166]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

 

You should really read up on the guy they executed.  He funded countless militia groups to carry out attacks like the one on the US consulate link.  This is on top of having half the Iraq government on the payroll link.  And lets not forget taking one of our ships from international water! link

 

Cutting the head off the snake will bring them back down to Earth without causing another power vacuum like the Iraq war.  Its about time the fuckers pulling the stings got executed instead of needless wars.  Iran have called for three days of mourning, but there is very little civilian support within Iran for their military adventures, given most struggle to put food on the table because of the sanctions.

 

Quick hard action to set boundaries (like blowing up Assad's chemical stores) followed with justification and confirmation of no further attacks.  The US have done a sterling job n the middle east.

 

Alright fucking Andy McWabs. 

[Kevin Carr's Gloves 3181]

3 hours ago, Rayvin said:

The left and centre has been beaten across the world and is now soul searching and in total retreat. Corbyn was one attempt to fight back and he failed.

 

But this wasn't just about him and his failure in the same way that the banking crisis wasn't just about Labour back then. These are global battles now. Whoever we choose will die on the same hill as Corbyn because no one since Blair has actually understood that this isn't just about petty domestic bullshit anymore. It's internationalism versus isolationism. Whoever we choose needs to be an internationalist but needs to win while somehow appealing to the isolationist voters.

 

I don't think anyone within Labour was capable of navigating that line with Brexit in play, but maybe without it someone can be.

The left centre won in Scotland