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I'm not saying that it's significant, I'm merely remarking that it happened. And we appear to be aligned on everything else.

 

EDIT - although I do think he needs to be careful with that 9%. Labour can't afford to lose, frankly, anyone.

Edited by Rayvin
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19 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

I was sad to hear Suzanne Moore was forced to leave the Guardian. Here she explains why 

https://unherd.com/2020/11/why-i-had-to-leave-the-guardian/?=frlh

 

Thanks for sharing that, it's a fascinating insight. I don't have the highest opinion of Moore, I think she's a thinly veiled misandrist, but it's illuminating how the Guardian has effectively shunted her out over trans rights issues. I'm on the Guardian side of that debate in truth, I think a lot of the pushback from feminists is coming from this idea that trans people are now coming to be seen as more 'hard done by' than women in their eyes - having said that, she absolutely should be able to make her views clear without 300+ colleagues denouncing her ffs.

 

I won't miss her columns but I'm sorry to hear it ended in the way it did.

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Just now, Dr Gloom said:

i was struck by what she said about being censored more by the left than the right. "the left" in this country really has got itself into a bit of a pickle. 

 

 

Yes absolutely, the left has been far too intolerant of opposing views and dialogue for some time. I've fallen foul of it myself.

 

It does sound though from another line she's put in there, that it's more pressure coming from Guardian US than it is from Guardian UK. And the left wing movement in the US over social justice issues is far more highly charged (rightly) than it is here. Another example perhaps of a 'broad church' organisation not really being able to live up to what it claims to.

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That would be a mistake IMO. They shouldn’t vote against but voting for the deal means that when Starmer criticises the deal at any point over the next four years then the Tories are going to come back every time with ‘well you voted for it’. Abstaining wouldn’t be the best tactic to win back the ‘red wall’ but overall would be the safest option.

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11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

That would be a mistake IMO. They shouldn’t vote against but voting for the deal means that when Starmer criticises the deal at any point over the next four years then the Tories are going to come back every time with ‘well you voted for it’. Abstaining wouldn’t be the best tactic to win back the ‘red wall’ but overall would be the safest option.

 

Presumably the red wall seats are more important than the ability to say 'I told you so' as far as Starmer is concerned. Suggests that in reality, they think Brexit had a much bigger influence on last year's election than they've let on.

 

I think they're damned either way - this move will cost them votes too.

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53 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

Presumably the red wall seats are more important than the ability to say 'I told you so' as far as Starmer is concerned. Suggests that in reality, they think Brexit had a much bigger influence on last year's election than they've let on.

 

I think they're damned either way - this move will cost them votes too.

It will fuck them in Scotland 

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10 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said:

It will fuck them in Scotland 

 

They're fucked anyway

 

Looks like it will need independence and Labour to be capitalising on a poor SNP government for Labour to be strong in Scotland again...by which time it'll be pointless in regards to Westminster as Scotland will be independent.....

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On 25/11/2020 at 11:23, Dr Gloom said:

i was struck by what she said about being censored more by the left than the right. "the left" in this country really has got itself into a bit of a pickle. 

 


This is happening everywhere. Glenn Greenwald has been forced to quit Intercept recently.  
 

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/glenn-greenwald-on-his-resignation

 

Substack is becoming the platform for unbiased investigative journalism 

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13 minutes ago, S Norman said:


This is happening everywhere. Glenn Greenwald has been forced to quit Intercept recently.  
 

https://taibbi.substack.com/p/glenn-greenwald-on-his-resignation

 

Substack is becoming the platform for unbiased investigative journalism 

 

I've not gone into the Grenwald stuff in too much detail but as I understand it, he was trying to publish unsubstantiated reports about Biden. I'm open minded on this but has any evidence come to light that weighs in favour of one side or the other?

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