Rayvin 4949 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 minute ago, ewerk said: But you do have to vote Labour. Â I mean if I'm getting back into the single market they can have my vote all day long tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26182 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Come election time Starmer is going to have to address the EU situation which he has so far managed to avoid doing. He needs to have an answer by then. Anything that promises free movement is likely to be a vote loser. He's going to need to have a magical plan that is close to the single market but at the same time smells nothing like it. It's an incredibly tough ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34170 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 And there we have it. I'M ALRIGHT JACK.  Just give in to the Dark Side, vote Tory and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26182 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: Â I mean if I'm getting back into the single market they can have my vote all day long tbh. Oh you'll be getting out of the single market baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I'd love to know how, in the world in which we live, he's supposed to have this grown up "Hey guys.... Let's talk about our good friends, the EU, and how things could just be peachy again if maybe we started thinking about rejoining. Don't get me wrong guys, there could be some improvements, but let's just sit down and talk about things in a calm manner" conversation.  When all that would matter is the Daily Mail headlines STARMER BETRAYS THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE, etc etc. Johnson immediately back on the offensive talking about how Labour doesn't respect democracy etc. Recipe for disaster.  The Labour Party already has an almost impossible needle to thread in order to win voters back at either end of the political spectrum. The idea that now is the time for some fantasy campfire chat about rejoining the EU is just insane.  I mean my approach would more be along the lines of "this fuck up is due to Brexit, this loss of earnings is due to Brexit, this failure of recovery is due to Brexit, your cost of living is skyrocketing due to Brexit", etc.  It would mean that when he does eventually start doing that, which he will because it's the truth, he'll seem more credible. Either way though, my role in this is to build pressure for things to move in that direction. You're talking as if I'm trying to win him an election - I'm not. I just want the issue dealt with - it's his job to win the election, not my job to do him favours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34170 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 I hope you look good in dungarees, Rayvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gemmill said: And there we have it. I'M ALRIGHT JACK.  Just give in to the Dark Side, vote Tory and be done with it.  Sorry like, but have you just drawn a serious conclusion about me from a discussion I'm having with ewerk about the prospect of marrying him to get back into the single market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: Come election time Starmer is going to have to address the EU situation which he has so far managed to avoid doing. He needs to have an answer by then. Anything that promises free movement is likely to be a vote loser. He's going to need to have a magical plan that is close to the single market but at the same time smells nothing like it. It's an incredibly tough ask. Â Yeah I think so too. Unenviable position really, but that's the reality of what he's aiming for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34170 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 No it was a joke, daft shite. I also don't really think you need to consider how you look in dungarees. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17626 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: Come election time Starmer is going to have to address the EU situation which he has so far managed to avoid doing. He needs to have an answer by then. Anything that promises free movement is likely to be a vote loser. He's going to need to have a magical plan that is close to the single market but at the same time smells nothing like it. It's an incredibly tough ask.  I don't think so. Firstly, as I say, people's standard of living are decreasing at a record pace across the board. I don't anticipate the tories will be able to bring up Brexit in a positive light by then, especially if covid is finally over. Secondly, he just needs to take a page from the tory strategy book. Keep things vagues, mutter something about better relationships, respect international law etc. I think Labour's problems are now less than the tories by a large margin. And ultimately, Starmer is more competent than any tory cabinet minister I can think of (albeit uncharismatic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Gemmill said: No it was a joke, daft shite. I also don't really think you need to consider how you look in dungarees.   With all the hysteria about the morality of my choice to vote Green (along with all the other closet Tories), it's getting a little hard to tell the difference between serious and joking  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17626 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 7 minutes ago, Gemmill said: I hope you look good in dungarees, Rayvin.  I do have this mental image.   2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26182 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 Just now, Renton said:  I don't think so. Firstly, as I say, people's standard of living are decreasing at a record pace across the board. I don't anticipate the tories will be able to bring up Brexit in a positive light by then, especially if covid is finally over. Secondly, he just needs to take a page from the tory strategy book. Keep things vagues, mutter something about better relationships, respect international law etc. I think Labour's problems are now less than the tories by a large margin. And ultimately, Starmer is more competent than any tory cabinet minister I can think of (albeit uncharismatic). Johnson got away with the bluster because it was his 'character'. Starmer will be held to a higher standard because he's portrayed himself as competent. The people who generally voted for Brexit and increasingly are voting Tory are people whose lives are already pretty shit. Starmer wins either by the Tories imploding or him managing to inspire the country and the latter ain't happening. All he can do is try not to rock the boat too much but he will be pressed on specifics on his plan for Europe in a way that Johnson wasn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 (edited) As I implied but I suppose didn't outright say earlier, if he comes within touching distance of looking like he could win come the next GE, I'll revise my opinion on this. If Labour look dead in the water then my vote is better spent making a point. Edited November 18, 2021 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17626 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, ewerk said: Johnson got away with the bluster because it was his 'character'. Starmer will be held to a higher standard because he's portrayed himself as competent. The people who generally voted for Brexit and increasingly are voting Tory are people whose lives are already pretty shit. Starmer wins either by the Tories imploding or him managing to inspire the country and the latter ain't happening. All he can do is try not to rock the boat too much but he will be pressed on specifics on his plan for Europe in a way that Johnson wasn't.  Yeah, maybe. Too early to tell. I think it's unlikely Johnson will be tory leader by then though and I just can't see a replacement for him. What I do think though is now Starmer has to continue coming out and attacking in the way he has, which is actually to cause divide in the tory party itself rather than directly influence the electorate (another tory trick). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38563 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 HS2 Leeds link cut amid promise to transform rail https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-59334043   Fuck the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16498 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 If the money was going to be spent better in the North I would say I am not bothered. But it looks like it's not going to be.  Levelling up eh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17626 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 It's utterly shafted the North East. There is nothing for us at all. So we'll have massively over-crowded trains and no extra local services (other than pork barrel shit like the Ashington line) for the rest of our lifetimes and probably our kids too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16498 Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 34 minutes ago, Renton said: It's utterly shafted the North East. There is nothing for us at all. So we'll have massively over-crowded trains and no extra local services (other than pork barrel shit like the Ashington line) for the rest of our lifetimes and probably our kids too. Its mad.  Isn't most of the money being spent around Manc? Meanwhile you have places like Bradford not on a main line route and wonder why it's suffering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17626 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 (edited) 18 hours ago, wykikitoon said: Its mad.  Isn't most of the money being spent around Manc? Meanwhile you have places like Bradford not on a main line route and wonder why it's suffering  Yeah, looking at the plans in more detail Manchester and Lancashire in general are massive winners in this and West and North Yorkshire, and the NE, are screwed. So now we have an East-West divide as well as a North-South divide. Having said that, it would not surprise me if they change the plans again and stiff Manchester.  Talking of trains, I'd like to complain about the terrible misleading signage in train stations. I was at Penrith the other day and far from getting what was promised from standing at the platform edge, I was very nearly hit by an express train.    Edited November 19, 2021 by Renton 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34170 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/boris-johnson-to-sue-the-new-european-over-buyers-remorse-article/  Trump-lite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16498 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Why are people blind to what's happening? They threaten the likes of the Beeb and Channel 4 for not singing their tune. It's fucking censorship at it's finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26182 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Marr leaving the BBC. Thank god. Maybe not they can get a half decent interviewer on a Sunday morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5889 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 3 hours ago, Gemmill said: https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/boris-johnson-to-sue-the-new-european-over-buyers-remorse-article/  Trump-lite. It's fucking scary that this lot are in charge of everything. I assume Boris did say what he is accused of saying about his wife. And any paper worth their salt would have a reliable source to back up any story that goes to press.  So Boris, knowing the story is true, and knowing that they will have had verification of this, still attempts to threaten them with legal action  you can understand why we got such a hopeless Brexit deal out of the EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26182 Posted November 19, 2021 Share Posted November 19, 2021 Except he’s decided not to sue them. No doubt because it would be proven in court that he did say exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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