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The Iraq war was a colossal foreign policy fuck up. I marched against it in London and didn’t vote Labour in the following two elections, in protest.

However, it isn’t the only thing that defines the Blair government. As shameful as it was, it is a real shame some see it as his only defining legacy. His achievements should have been talked up on the campaign trail, not disowned. It could have been used to appeal to floating voters - remember that decade under a labour government before the global financial crisis, it was quite good, wasn’t it?

Blair is a social democrat. His policies won elections and improved people’s lives. It’s a shame the Corbyn cult chose to ignore that. 

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24 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

And a Corbyn government definitely wouldn't have gone to war... 

Corbyn couldn’t even beat the Maybot. I allowed myself to dream about our chances of scraping a hung parliament but  he was never going to govern, let’s be frank.

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12 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Anyway, it's job done by the Tories.

 

Whilst the left rips itself apart arguing about whether it's Corbyns fault or Brexits fault, or whether we need to lurch to the centre.... The BBC, Kussenberg, the Andrew Neil mess, right wing Rabbi doing their mates a favour, Boris lying to the Queen, funding his GF with tax payers money, assaulting his current GF, 80% of their ads being lies etc etc etc all gets forgotten about.

 

The propaganda machine does its job and the morons remain happy with their lot. 

It’s all the Jews and the media’s fault, of course it is  

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18 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said:

The Iraq war was a colossal foreign policy fuck up. I marched against it in London and didn’t vote Labour in the following two elections, in protest.

However, it isn’t the only thing that defines the Blair government. As shameful as it was, it is a real shame some see it as his only defining legacy. His achievements should have been talked up on the campaign trail, not disowned. It could have been used to appeal to floating voters - remember that decade under a labour government before the global financial crisis, it was quite good, wasn’t it?

Blair is a social democrat. His policies won elections and improved people’s lives. It’s a shame the Corbyn cult chose to ignore that. 

You're right to an extent but the danger is that the next question is so why did the crash happen? 

 

I know the answer but the argument was mainly lost. 

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29 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Anyway, it's job done by the Tories.

 

Whilst the left rips itself apart arguing about whether it's Corbyns fault or Brexits fault, or whether we need to lurch to the centre.... The BBC, Kussenberg, the Andrew Neil mess, right wing Rabbi doing their mates a favour, Boris lying to the Queen, funding his GF with tax payers money, assaulting his current GF, 80% of their ads being lies etc etc etc all gets forgotten about.

 

The propaganda machine does its job and the morons remain happy with their lot. 

 

Nobody has forgotten about that stuff. Anyone with a political brain knows about it and recognises you have to deal with it. Which is precisely why you have to be smart about it. New Labour type smart. 

 

I told you years ago Corbyn was an amateur and would be a disaster for the party and by extension the country. You wouldn't listen. And you still won't listen. You're part if the problem.

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Problem was there were no alternative left wing candidates - that's a shame in itself as the centrists who scream about a broad church didn't think that church should go that far with their MP selections.

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29 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Your doing it again :lol:

 

It's not all the medias fault, but they certainly have a big part to play. Your blind if you can't see it. Pick up a paper or turn or sky news 

I blame the chief rabbi and his friends 

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28 minutes ago, NJS said:

Problem was there were no alternative left wing candidates - that's a shame in itself as the centrists who scream about a broad church didn't think that church should go that far with their MP selections.

There are still no viable left wing candidates.

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Corbyn’s central campaign promise was to end austerity but the places most badly affected by austerity voted for the Tories. Blyth, Workington and many more. I think that demonstrates their main issue was the leader. We can harp on about Brexit and the media but the membership have to consider this when they choose his replacement and ask themselves: do we want to govern or continue as a sixth form debating club? 

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Here's a funny thing. I popped into my parents house this afternoon. My Dad use to be firm believer in scottish independence. Now he's not and firmly wants the union to hold together. I'm the exact opposite. I was a firm believer in the union, now I think Scotland should seek independence despite the huge practical difficulties. It would be nice to hear the thoughts of Scottish voters like JJ (not KCG who isn't really a scot). 

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I spent today chatting with my Dad and he is adamant that we need to have a northern leader for the party (Not Sir Starmer or Thornberry or any of the London "elites"), reconnect, get proportional representation, and never let this shit happen again.

 

He wanted Raynor, Jarvis, someone like that. Was also adamant that getting into recriminations and blaming people for being "stupid" is pointless. We need to move on, learn from it and suck it up.

 

I think he's right but it's annoying because I want to be angry.

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39 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

I spent today chatting with my Dad and he is adamant that we need to have a northern leader for the party (Not Sir Starmer or Thornberry or any of the London "elites"), reconnect, get proportional representation, and never let this shit happen again.

 

He wanted Raynor, Jarvis, someone like that. Was also adamant that getting into recriminations and blaming people for being "stupid" is pointless. We need to move on, learn from it and suck it up.

 

I think he's right but it's annoying because I want to be angry.

 

Ian Lavery is clearly the answer here.

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