Rayvin 4963 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 If we're going to do this iconoclasm stuff, then I am actually more in favour of it being consistently applied than I am of them just stopping with that one statue. Bring them all down IMO, if that's what is going to make society a better and safer place. Â I also want to add that the Tories have been way ahead of the curve on defunding the police. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14030 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 59 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Sounds like Cecil Rhodes' statue is up next. He was apparently heavily pro-colonialism. Â The guy Rhodesia was named after? Surely not 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Meenzer said:  The guy Rhodesia was named after? Surely not  I don't know who all these people are because the curriculum didn't teach it. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30367 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Because previous generations were taught about all the bad things we did in Empire of course  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I think the word 'bad' might have changed over time though in terms of what it covered. I mean I don't know tbh but I would imagine that colonialism was still considered at least neutral or good in the 60s and 70s, by and large. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19801 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Schools should teach about how much blood the british empire has on its hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) On the other hand, I'm technically willfully ignorant on the British Empire because I could go and read about it but I always end up looking at things like philosophy, historical figures from further flung places, etc instead. Â So fair enough I guess, I should 'inform' myself. Edited June 9, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19801 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I don’t remember learning about the East India company in school, for example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: Schools should teach about how much blood the british empire has on its hands  It should. I mean history for me skipped from 1650 to 1900. And from 1900 on, there was basically no mention whatsoever of Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38709 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Dr Gloom said: I don’t remember learning about the East India company in school, for example It wouldn’t be that much if a stretch to say that The East India company was the reason for the Empire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30367 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I think the word 'bad' might have changed over time though in terms of what it covered. I mean I don't know tbh but I would imagine that colonialism was still considered at least neutral or good in the 60s and 70s, by and large. How old do you think Meenzer and I are? You cheeky cunt. I’ve heard about Rhodesia and Rhodes without having studied them in any context at school though. And I did history gcse and a-level Edited June 9, 2020 by Alex 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3976 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Rayvin said:  I don't know who all these people are because the curriculum didn't teach it. Sorry Read the novels of Wilbur Smith as a start. You have to read between the lines as his writing isn't exactly "woke" but the truth is in there. Edited June 9, 2020 by NJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30367 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: Schools should teach about how much blood the british empire has on its hands And the horrors of war. A lot of this country seem to glorify both. Whether it’s the attitude of thinking the world owes us something or treating the period around Remembrance Sunday as an extra Xmas  for gammons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3976 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 59 minutes ago, Renton said: By and large, I'm against this. You can't judge the cultural norms of the 18th century by today's standards. If there are some particularly dubious characters, by all means censor them. But for others just have educational plaques.  The other thing is, will this just mask the real issues. It's all symbolic, none of this will changes the political reality of today under the conservatives though. There are more important things in the here and now that need desperate attention. Coronavirus, Brexit, working rights, and massive inequality of which race is mainly a proxy rather than a cause. I think if you were black, walking past a statue of someone like Colston would be a real issue.  I can only compare it with a statue of Trelford Mills or Mike Ashley being outside SJP. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30367 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 7 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said: It wouldn’t be that much if a stretch to say that The East India company was the reason for the Empire. We acquired Canada due to an insatiable appetite for beaver (wahey!) fur and its use in millinery 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 14030 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, Alex said: How old do you think Meenzer and I are? You cheeky cunt. Â I was going to say like. Â I get it though, there's a lot of information out there and you can't be expected to know everything, I just genuinely thought that was more common knowledge. Certainly wasn't something I was taught at school, though being the kind of kid who read atlases for fun probably helped. Â 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38709 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Alex said: We acquired Canada due to an insatiable appetite for beaver (wahey!) fur and its use in millinery The East India company’s army was twice the size of the British Army in the 1800s! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3193 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Not knowing stuff is absolutely acceptable you can’t know everything. Commenting and pushing an opinion on stuff you know nothing about is shit however and from reading social media there are many people who take part in that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30367 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: Not knowing stuff is absolutely acceptable you can’t know everything. Commenting and pushing an opinion on stuff you know nothing about is shit however and from reading social media there are many people who take part in that. Spot on. I was just teasing Rayvin really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 I can't see that comment from KCG anymore for some reason. But I think you can be free to comment on anything based on the knowledge you have. I made an initial post about what was happening from the news, then made very lukewarm support for them continuing to tear statues down, which was based on my yearning for values to be consistently applied - and I think the protesters would support that in full tbh. Â Beyond that, I'm not here defending the Empire, the statues, or even advocating for anything other than consistency. I don't feel that my lack of knowledge about who Cecil Rhodes was, should preclude me from making a post stating that some protesters are going to pull the statue down. Â I just want to be clear on that, as much as I accept the point he's made (which I can't see). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34385 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Pssst: Rayvin went to see Jimmy Savile when he was lying in state in that Leeds Hotel, pass it on. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26271 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 (edited) To be fair to Rayvin he did try googling ‘Blitish lacism’ but it didn’t turn up anything useful. Edited June 9, 2020 by ewerk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4963 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 Â I'm just going to be quiet now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34385 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 'OWSABOUTTHATTHEN! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17743 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:  I'm just going to be quiet now.  That's right, know your place, boy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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