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But surely.....    

HI I'M WOLF BLITZER REPORTING FROM EDINBORO      

Roses are red Violets are blue Please vote for Labour Unless you're a Jew

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But he's correct. 

 

Johnson has promised to increase the minimum wage - bullshit no doubt but completely skewers Starmer's no to £15.

 

Starmer offered nothing but "crushing the left" and he gained nothing from it poll wise. 

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1 minute ago, NJS said:

But he's correct. 

 

Johnson has promised to increase the minimum wage - bullshit no doubt but completely skewers Starmer's no to £15.

 

Starmer offered nothing but "crushing the left" and he gained nothing from it poll wise. 

 

Aye right, we have the PM blatantly telling lie after lie in his speech, gaslighting the public, and Owen Jones's first instinct is to attack Starmer? The £15 an hour pledge is demonstrably insane and in actual fact, Starmer's speech was very well received outside of the "left" you describe and obviously subscribe to. Jones is a little scrote. 

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You and I know Johnson's full of shit but thick cunts like his style and don't know or care that he's lying. 

 

One of Starmer's 10 pledges was to abolish UC - in all his responses to the cut or at conference did he use that to actually present something different? No fucking chance as we all know now he lied through his teeth to get elected. 

 

Labour under every leader ever make the same mistake by not realising the tories campaign every single day - not this "we have plenty of time until the next GE" bullshit. 

 

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, NJS said:

You and I know Johnson's full of shit but thick cunts like his style and don't know or care that he's lying. 

 

One of Starmer's 10 pledges was to abolish UC - in all his responses to the cut or at conference did he use that to actually present something different? No fucking chance as we all know now he lied through his teeth to get elected. 

 

Labour under every leader ever make the same mistake by not realising the tories campaign every single day - not this "we have plenty of time until the next GE" bullshit. 

 

 

 

 

 

I actually think the tories being constantly in campaign mode is something of a new phenomenon. It's a popularist's trope, and Johnson is the ultimate popularist. And I see no reason for the Labour party to make any detailed policy announcements at this stage in opposition, it's simply ammunition to the tories or they will steal the ideas. But like Johnson's speech, this is a diversion from the matter at hand. The question is, why is Jones's first instinct to attack Starmer? Starmer is a million times the man Johnson is, but in all honesty its obvious Jones would prefer Johnson as PM to him, so he can continue sniping and whining from the side lines.  

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3 hours ago, Renton said:

 

I actually think the tories being constantly in campaign mode is something of a new phenomenon. It's a popularist's trope, and Johnson is the ultimate popularist. And I see no reason for the Labour party to make any detailed policy announcements at this stage in opposition, it's simply ammunition to the tories or they will steal the ideas. But like Johnson's speech, this is a diversion from the matter at hand. The question is, why is Jones's first instinct to attack Starmer? Starmer is a million times the man Johnson is, but in all honesty its obvious Jones would prefer Johnson as PM to him, so he can continue sniping and whining from the side lines.  

 

I think this is a bit unfair on Jones, and I have next to no time for him. Jones is one of the most high profile/well platformed people that the Labour left has, and will see it as his duty given his beliefs to convey that particular argument. I would imagine that when it actually matters, pre-GE, he will soften on Starmer considerably. There is no such thing as an action free from consequence, and Starmer choosing to abandon (I think all?) pledges that had the left of the party rally behind him in the first place is something that we have to reasonably expect consequences would be attached to. If he didn't see that coming, he's not fit for his post. I suspect he rather did see it coming though, and was even gambling that it would poll well given that it looks like he's "beating the left". The sad truth though, is that his party just looks like a complete shambles. IMO that's completely on him at this stage. He's a politician, he was more than capable of navigating this without causing a clusterfuck if he wanted to - he just didn't want to.

 

For all you can claim the left should rally behind them, he has in fact been stamping on their collective faces for the past few weeks. If they let that go without comment, then IMO they'll probably just go home and stop bothering with Labour altogether - and while you might cheer that, I suspect when volunteers are needed around election time, the party will rue their loss. Unless people like yourself are going to go out in their place - which is basically what will need to happen if this schism doesn't resolve.

 

Jones is well within his rights to point out the stupidity of Starmer's play here. And I don't think for a second he would prefer Johnson as PM.

 

 

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I know he's far too "right on" and is especially soft on Islam but he did both support and criticise Corbyn when it was warranted and he did welcome Starmer based on his pledges. It's only since he's reneged on a few of them and failed to oppose Johnson effectively that's he's turned on him. 

 

I do believe he genuinely wants a socialist government for what it's worth. 

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51 minutes ago, Renton said:

Naaah. Owen tweeting anti-Starmer drivel in response to Johnson's abortion of a speech isn't normal imo. We'll agree to disagree. 

 

I'm fine with that as ever, but I do want to point out as a final note that had the 'bash the left' play worked, and the polls had reflected that, I think it would be much harder for Jones to make the argument he's making. It's an open goal because it was a poorly thought out strategy.

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Do polls usually shift after opposition party conferences? Honestly no idea. I don't think Labour has dropped in popularity though and Johnson is plummeting in the popularity stakes, isn't he? Honestly, better get this shit out the way now than next year.

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On 06/10/2021 at 15:30, NJS said:

One of Starmer's 10 pledges was to abolish UC - in all his responses to the cut or at conference did he use that to actually present something different? No fucking chance as we all know now he lied through his teeth to get elected. 

 

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Not asking for a manifesto - just answers to questions that show good intent. 

 

UC cut is shit - what would you do - I'd scrap it and replace it with something fairer. Good. 

 

NIC rise is shit - what would you do - I'd raise money by increasing tax on unearned and investment income. Good. 

 

Just an end to being scared of upsetting his focus groups of floating tory voters and actually standing for something - anything. 

 

 

 

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