Craig 6302 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, Gemmill said: Apparently May was told to name a date for her resignation or the rules would be changed. Now these blokes will clearly treat Johnson differently but eventually it'll come to this, especially if he's lost the two byelections and the investigation turns up more wrongdoing. They had Ellwood on Radio 4 this morning who said: "The honourable way forward would be for the PM to 'step back' and accept the task of uniting the party to win the next general election is 'too big'. For this to happen, cabinet ministers would need to 'provide that direction of travel'. But we don't have that kind of cabinet, we don't have that sort of prime minister, we have to deal with the reality that those days of an honourable resignation are not there." When quizzed on this asked if what he meant was that, unlike with Thatcher & May, the cabinet don't have the conviction to persuade him the game is up and even if they did, Johnson wouldn't listen to them anyway he responded: "That's precisely what I mean!" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38739 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 It’s a shame @Christmas Tree doesn’t “do” politics anymore. It’d be illuminating to hear the opinions of a common or garden (sofa) Tory on the Fat Mess now. *not really 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wykikitoon 16613 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Just now, wykikitoon said: She's the gift that keeps on giving 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38739 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Could do without the naked bit though 🤮 Denise Squelch is more than enough for this place, without Naked Nadine slinging her guts about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17745 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Craig said: They had Ellwood on Radio 4 this morning who said: "The honourable way forward would be for the PM to 'step back' and accept the task of uniting the party to win the next general election is 'too big'. For this to happen, cabinet ministers would need to 'provide that direction of travel'. But we don't have that kind of cabinet, we don't have that sort of prime minister, we have to deal with the reality that those days of an honourable resignation are not there." When quizzed on this asked if what he meant was that, unlike with Thatcher & May, the cabinet don't have the conviction to persuade him the game is up and even if they did, Johnson wouldn't listen to them anyway he responded: "That's precisely what I mean!" Hardly surprising. He purged the parliamentary party of nearly all its talent and conviction. Even got rid of Winston Churchill's grandchild. So what you're left with is a collection of hugely untalented and incompetent sycophants. Whereas, imo, the shadow cabinet has some really promising individuals. I mean, when you've Nadine fucking Dorries as culture secretray you're trolling the country. So even if you get rid of Johnson, there's nobody left fit for government and we've got to endure two more years of this. As I said yesterday, I'm genuinely afraid of what can happen in those two years. I expect more extreme populist policies and increasing power grab to the executive. Yesterday was a pivotal moment for the country, celebrating it feels a bit to me like the 2017 election where Corbyn did better than expected but still lost. Johnson is stil there. He isn't going anywhere under any circumstances imo. Edit: just to add, don't forget, the rebels are not decent politicians either. In general they voted in either naked self-interest because they were worried they were going to lose their seats, or because they are fucking headbangers and Johnson isn't right wing enough for them. Edited June 7, 2022 by Renton 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34422 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 They're not just gonna give him two years to run the clock down towards an inevitable crushing defeat at the polls. "not going anywhere under any circumstances" is clearly nonsense. He will be removed later this year imo. Crushing electoral defeat means "I lose my job and have to go back to being a teacher/middle manager" for loads of these people. Even some of the cabinet - Raab for instance - are at risk. They won't just allow this bloke to put them all out of work. Even delaying the confidence vote til after the by elections would probably have been enough to finish him off. That being the case, to say that he's now there to stay NO MATTER WHAT cannot be right. They'll find a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17745 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Johnson's primary aim now he says is to cut back on public services. After more than a decade of austerity. Red meat foe 12 minutes ago, Gemmill said: They're not just gonna give him two years to run the clock down towards an inevitable crushing defeat at the polls. "not going anywhere under any circumstances" is clearly nonsense. He will be removed later this year imo. Crushing electoral defeat means "I lose my job and have to go back to being a teacher/middle manager" for loads of these people. Even some of the cabinet - Raab for instance - are at risk. They won't just allow this bloke to put them all out of work. Even delaying the confidence vote til after the by elections would probably have been enough to finish him off. That being the case, to say that he's now there to stay NO MATTER WHAT cannot be right. They'll find a way. What way is that then? He's safe for a year (ignore Bridgen, who's a cunt btw). He'll go on appeasing all sides of his party by promising undeliverable populist policies and appeasing the right wing. For instance today he's stated his first aim is to reduce the size of government (aka public services). Red meat to the like of Bridgen. When the rebels realise their existential threat is in fact the opposition parties, they'll toe the line as there really isn't any other option. I've been predicting Johnson'd demise for years now. I was wrong. I unbderestimated his authoritarian dictatorial tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34422 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Renton said: Johnson's primary aim now he says is to cut back on public services. After more than a decade of austerity. Red meat foe What way is that then? He's safe for a year (ignore Bridgen, who's a cunt btw). He'll go on appeasing all sides of his party by promising undeliverable populist policies and appeasing the right wing. For instance today he's stated his first aim is to reduce the size of government (aka public services). Red meat to the like of Bridgen. When the rebels realise their existential threat is in fact the opposition parties, they'll toe the line as there really isn't any other option. I've been predicting Johnson'd demise for years now. I was wrong. I unbderestimated his authoritarian dictatorial tendencies. The same way they got rid of May. By telling him to resign or they'll change the 1922 rules about 1 year to the next vote. They'll do this after the two crushing by election defeats, no recovery in the polls, and the latest investigation ultimately finding that he misled parliament (although they'll no doubt decide it was accidental). And they'll do it because he can get none of his great new policies through because his party is now openly fucking with his authority. It's not just Bridgen he needs to keep happy so I don't know why you're referencing him. You, Johnson, and the cabinet seem to be the only people in Britain who think he can just plough on to the next election laying waste to the country in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14582 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 (edited) Who’s keen on taking the job in these circumstances @Gemmill?? Anyone that stupid to be even interested means they’re completely unqualified and will lead the Tories to a 1997 style defeat in 2024. That’s why he’s staying, unless he goes to the country and gets a mandate from the electorate . That looks like his only option and there’s a fair chance it might work in the short term. Edited June 7, 2022 by PaddockLad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9197 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Gemmill said: Civil war. How appropriate for JRM.. Pretty much his era 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34422 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 18 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Who’s keen on taking the job in these circumstances @Gemmill?? Anyone that stupid to be even interested means they’re completely unqualified and will lead the Tories to a 1997 style defeat in 2024. That’s why he’s staying, unless he goes to the country and gets a mandate from the electorate . That looks like his only option and there’s a fair chance it might work in the short term. Are you kidding? Half of the cabinet will be queuing up to take it. Of course they're unqualified but that's exactly why they want it under any circumstances. None of them should be in the jobs they're currently in, but their arrogance, their ambition, and the complete lack of alternatives means they are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14582 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 2 minutes ago, Gemmill said: Are you kidding? Half of the cabinet will be queuing up to take it. Of course they're unqualified but that's exactly why they want it under any circumstances. None of them should be in the jobs they're currently in, but their arrogance, their ambition, and the complete lack of alternatives means they are. Those leading the err “rebellion” need someone who can unite the party and win an election….SPOILER: there isn’t anyone in that fuckin cabinet is there?? If they’re going to get this done it’ll be from the back benches….Hunt is a twat but far too clever to take it… people are mentioning Penny Mordant who Johnson sacked as Minister for Defence or Tom Tugrhadt… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17745 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 34 minutes ago, Gemmill said: The same way they got rid of May. By telling him to resign or they'll change the 1922 rules about 1 year to the next vote. They'll do this after the two crushing by election defeats, no recovery in the polls, and the latest investigation ultimately finding that he misled parliament (although they'll no doubt decide it was accidental). And they'll do it because he can get none of his great new policies through because his party is now openly fucking with his authority. It's not just Bridgen he needs to keep happy so I don't know why you're referencing him. You, Johnson, and the cabinet seem to be the only people in Britain who think he can just plough on to the next election laying waste to the country in the process. I've been listening to R5 this morning as my background noise. Lots of tory rebels interviewed, all toeing the line now (mandate, democracy, blah blah). There isn't the numbers or mechanism to take him out imo. Maybe I'm wrong, I certainly hope so, guess I'll find out in 2 weeks if you're right, like you were about Everton. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17745 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Those leading the err “rebellion” need someone who can unite the party and win an election….SPOILER: there isn’t anyone in that fuckin cabinet is there?? If they’re going to get this done it’ll be from the back benches….Hunt is a twat but far too clever to take it… people are mentioning Penny Mordant who Johnson sacked as Minister for Defence or Tom Tugrhadt… Aye, talk about a poisoned chalice. You'd have to be incredibly stupid to take this on. Dorries for PM anybody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34422 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 10 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Those leading the err “rebellion” need someone who can unite the party and win an election….SPOILER: there isn’t anyone in that fuckin cabinet is there?? If they’re going to get this done it’ll be from the back benches….Hunt is a twat but far too clever to take it… people are mentioning Penny Mordant who Johnson sacked as Minister for Defence or Tom Tugrhadt… You asked "who's keen on taking the job in these circumstances", the implication being that Johnson will stay in post by default because no one else would be silly enough. Well Hunt has already started his leadership campaign, and given the opportunity, half of the cabinet would put themselves forward. The "rebellion" wants not-Johnson. That doesn't have to come from. The back benches. They would happily coalesce around Truss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 21 minutes ago, Gemmill said: The same way they got rid of May. By telling him to resign or they'll change the 1922 rules about 1 year to the next vote. They'll do this after the two crushing by election defeats, no recovery in the polls, and the latest investigation ultimately finding that he misled parliament (although they'll no doubt decide it was accidental). And they'll do it because he can get none of his great new policies through because his party is now openly fucking with his authority. It's not just Bridgen he needs to keep happy so I don't know why you're referencing him. You, Johnson, and the cabinet seem to be the only people in Britain who think he can just plough on to the next election laying waste to the country in the process. I agree with this. Johnson is a cancer that is rapidly destroying their party. The longer they go without removing him, the greater the damage he will do. This will surely start to land with most of them fairly quickly aside from those who know they have zero opportunity to continue in a ministerial role under anyone but him (JRM, Dorries, etc.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17745 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Gemmill said: You asked "who's keen on taking the job in these circumstances", the implication being that Johnson will stay in post by default because no one else would be silly enough. Well Hunt has already started his leadership campaign, and given the opportunity, half of the cabinet would put themselves forward. The "rebellion" wants not-Johnson. That doesn't have to come from. The back benches. They would happily coalesce around Truss. As I said yesterday, this would normally be correct. But this is not a normal government or conservative party. Problem is, we don't have a written constitution and all the codes are advisory, not mandatory. They weren't designed to handle a psychopath with dictatorial tendencies like Johnson. This doesn't mean he will have some kind of coup btw, just that I think he will be around for longer than you think, and every day tyhis cunt is in power he degrades parliament and the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 45 minutes ago, PaddockLad said: Who’s keen on taking the job in these circumstances @Gemmill?? Anyone that stupid to be even interested means they’re completely unqualified and will lead the Tories to a 1997 style defeat in 2024. That’s why he’s staying, unless he goes to the country and gets a mandate from the electorate . That looks like his only option and there’s a fair chance it might work in the short term. Their only hope in having any designs on recovering this situation IMO is to appoint a 'dark horse' to the role rather than somewhat of a showman. Not unlike what they did in 1990 with Major who came from viritual obscurity to the PM role within 18 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34422 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 The way things usually work on here is a lot of fucking talk and then the Big G gets proven right. I suspect we're in for more of the same. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34422 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Liz Truss lies awake at night wondering how she can engineer an opportunity for a leadership contest and when she eventually falls asleep, she dreams of standing at a lectern outside No 10 delivering her hopes for the nation under my premiership. The idea that "taking the job under current circumstances doesn't feel right for me" even enters her head is insanity. The current circumstances in her head are ConservativeHome says I'm the No 1 choice with the membership and how many times in my career is this opportunity going to come around again. Yes please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig 6302 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Yeah, you're not going to convince me that out of 358 other Tories, there's not one who isn't either willing, or have the ambition to become the next PM. In many respects they've got nothing to lose - either the damage was already too great to avoid defeat or they end up looking like a fucking hero. I suspect they will get an absolute hammering in both by-elections at which point the parliamentary party will once again turn on him and state that public opinion is clear, and absolutely not going to change. Followed swiftly by his resignation, the launch of a leadership contest that they'll aim to have completed by the party conference in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19813 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Get Netflix done and chill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34422 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 Makes literally no sense. A great start, that should see him keep the job til the next election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8870 Posted June 7, 2022 Share Posted June 7, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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