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On 22/11/2022 at 07:39, Ginolaandtonic said:

I never understood why employing medical staff that have been trained in poorer countries was seen as morally acceptable


Because they still need to pass exams in England/prove equivalency. And we don't have enough English Doctors to fill our vacant posts. 
 

Not sure where "morals" come into it?

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1 minute ago, Kid Dynamite said:


Because they still need to pass exams in England/prove equivalency. And we don't have enough English Doctors to fill our vacant posts. 
 

Not sure where "morals" come into it?

They’re coming here for more money and a better standard of living too of course. I kind of take his point but it doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny when the people want to come here. 

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21 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:


Because they still need to pass exams in England/prove equivalency. And we don't have enough English Doctors to fill our vacant posts. 
 

Not sure where "morals" come into it?

 

It costs about £300k to train a doctor in the UK. If they pass pass their exams and are "poached" by a richer country, is that morally acceptable? Maybe so, for the UK. But if it were not the UK, if it were a poor developing country where half the population is dire need of medical care, is it a moral issue then? I agree that it is actually.

 

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Latest ONS immigration figures should cheer up the gammons. Europeans OUT! Indians IN!

 

image.png.3bc291b5e3d337b593d41081c0186d36.png

 

 

Net immigration now a staggering 504,000 apparently. 

Edited by Renton
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Yeah but if you talk to any middle of the road intelligence Brexiteer they'll now tell you that this is fairer than only taking Europeans and exactly how we should be operating - and that actually, you're the racist for wanting Europeans only.

 

The truth about what anyone actually wanted isn't as important as "winning the argument". Not that they're doing that either.

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1 minute ago, Rayvin said:

Yeah but if you talk to any middle of the road intelligence Brexiteer they'll now tell you that this is fairer than only taking Europeans and exactly how we should be operating - and that actually, you're the racist for wanting Europeans only.

 

The truth about what anyone actually wanted isn't as important as "winning the argument". Not that they're doing that either.

 

Of course but since a lot of Brexiteers are more than a little bit racist in reality they will be fucking seething inside. Not a vote winner for the tories.

 

Call me racist if you like, but I am quite open in preferring intra-European immigration to global immigration. I kind of view it like concentric circles. So people who live in the UK and the RoI have absolutely no hindrance to travel within the British Isles. Then we extend it out to Europe with a few restrictions (i.e. FOM). Then outside that you need visas. The reason being we have shared historical and cultural values with our neighbours, and, you know, through reasons of fucking physical geography, it just makes sense. So as I said yesterday I think, a European can come over here and pick fruit or work in the hospitality industry for a summer or whatever, then go back home, which the huge majority do. And vice versa of course. Everybody wins.  This will not be the case with someone who's travelled all the way from India, how many strawberries picked would that flight be? 

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1 minute ago, Renton said:

 

Of course but since a lot of Brexiteers are more than a little bit racist in reality they will be fucking seething inside. Not a vote winner for the tories.

 

Call me racist if you like, but I am quite open in preferring intra-European immigration to global immigration. I kind of view it like concentric circles. So people who live in the UK and the RoI have absolutely no hindrance to travel within the British Isles. Then we extend it out to Europe with a few restrictions (i.e. FOM). Then outside that you need visas. The reason being we have shared historical and cultural values with our neighbours, and, you know, through reasons of fucking physical geography, it just makes sense. So as I said yesterday I think, a European can come over here and pick fruit or work in the hospitality industry for a summer or whatever, then go back home, which the huge majority do. And vice versa of course. Everybody wins.  This will not be the case with someone who's travelled all the way from India, how many strawberries picked would that flight be? 

 

I agree for what it's worth, much better to strengthen cultural ties with close neighbours, achieves better levels of integration, less social disruption and so on.

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2 minutes ago, Rayvin said:

 

I agree for what it's worth, much better to strengthen cultural ties with close neighbours, achieves better levels of integration, less social disruption and so on.

 

And as you say, the brexiteers faux outrage that this is somehow racist is so fucking transparent. They hate all foreigners, but especially brown ones. Like my step father-in-law. Won't travel to continental Europe (Cyprus is okay apparently) because, well fuck knows really. Guess just xenophobic, hoonestly don't know where it comes from. 

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14 minutes ago, Renton said:

 

And as you say, the brexiteers faux outrage that this is somehow racist is so fucking transparent. They hate all foreigners, but especially brown ones. Like my step father-in-law. Won't travel to continental Europe (Cyprus is okay apparently) because, well fuck knows really. Guess just xenophobic, hoonestly don't know where it comes from. 

Nailed on it’s because they drive on the left

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Looking at the data there, 509,000 legal immigrants from outside of Europe (whilst EU citizens actually leave). Half a million. Wasn't the argument from Brexiteers that EU citizens drove down wages? What do they think half a million people from Asia will do? Meanwhile our government and home secretrary obsess about sending a handful of "illegal immigrants" (i.e. asylum seekers) to Rwanda. 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Political commentators are consistently asking Mick Lynch if the RMT are being greedy. Why isn't the same questions being asked to Michelle Mone? 

 

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9 hours ago, Renton said:

 

It costs about £300k to train a doctor in the UK. If they pass pass their exams and are "poached" by a richer country, is that morally acceptable? Maybe so, for the UK. But if it were not the UK, if it were a poor developing country where half the population is dire need of medical care, is it a moral issue then? I agree that it is actually.

 


I misunderstood his post tbh. Assumed he meant it was morally wrong to take Doctors from countries with lesser educational systems (ie worse Doctors) 

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7 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:


I misunderstood his post tbh. Assumed he meant it was morally wrong to take Doctors from countries with lesser educational systems (ie worse Doctors) 


Not at all. I think it’s a blind spot of the left wing of politics. It seems no different than plundering a poorer nation for its resources.

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1 hour ago, Ginolaandtonic said:


Not at all. I think it’s a blind spot of the left wing of politics. It seems no different than plundering a poorer nation for its resources.

 

Think it's more centrist/internationalist than 'left'. Both sides are ultimately anti-globalist.

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2 hours ago, Rayvin said:

 

Think it's more centrist/internationalist than 'left'. Both sides are ultimately anti-globalist.

 

Agreed, I'm really struggling to see how this is anything to do with the left. It's ultimately due to underfunding of the NHS and medical schools, I'd say that was more a tory thing.

 

Fuck me, I am watching Richard Holden on QT now. Is this clown a fucking minister now, is this the dregs the tories are reduced to?

 

 

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8 hours ago, Renton said:

 

Agreed, I'm really struggling to see how this is anything to do with the left. It's ultimately due to underfunding of the NHS and medical schools, I'd say that was more a tory thing.

 

Fuck me, I am watching Richard Holden on QT now. Is this clown a fucking minister now, is this the dregs the tories are reduced to?

 

 

 

Unfortunately anyone to the left of Adolf Hitler had the whip removed by Johnson in the run up to the last GE. 

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