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The Fish
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Doesn't @@Toonpack normally come into this debate around now and tell us all that most gun owners are reasonable normal down to earth people who need their AR-15 assault rifle to manage gopher population as poison or dogs just won't cut it?

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Doesn't @@Toonpack normally come into this debate around now and tell us all that most gun owners are reasonable normal down to earth people who need their AR-15 assault rifle to manage gopher population as poison or dogs just won't cut it?

 

Last week this three year old boy was shot in the face by his four year old neighbour.

 

Kid-shot1.jpg

 

 

This is their front door.

 

Holzwarth.jpg

 

And their car.

 

GunFamily.jpg

 

 

 

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Doesn't @@Toonpack normally come into this debate around now and tell us all that most gun owners are reasonable normal down to earth people who need their AR-15 assault rifle to manage gopher population as poison or dogs just won't cut it?

Do you advocate randomly laying poison around the environment ??

 

P.S. Poison and dogs don't mix.

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Do you advocate randomly laying poison around the environment ??

 

P.S. Poison and dogs don't mix.

 

:lol:

 

Yes mate, that's exactly what I said.

 

Now that you've built that massive strawman do you mind if I fashion it in the likeness of the NRA chairman and set fire to it?

 

 

re: your p.s. I know, that is why I reached into the depths of the English lexicon to find the obscure word "or" which is used to link alternatives which are often mutually exclusive.

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Hmmm

 

I have briefly viewed most of your views,but what I donnot see is the view of an Ex criminal,or even present criminal Either (probably for obvious reasons) the reason of which I will get to...But I will state beforehand that I was a career criminal & howerver I may be viewed cannot be worse than I was for the most part of my life!(But before I do I am expecting a burrage of insults & F-ing & Blinding,BUT what I was & the way I was is irrelevant in this discussion,this is someone's view that has to be said to see both sides of the equasion,& I can see that a lot of those involved in this discussion donnot know the slightest about the criminal mind barring the fella who said his local police officers view was that if a criminals intent is to kill HE just WILL,Which is correct)... NOW... 10 yrs ago if you asked Me if I wanted handguns legalised I would of said "No Way!!!!" in a very unpolite manner,but then I was a fully committed criminal & had access to whatever I wanted & of course I/we had the upper hand, I mean why would I want anyone else having a gun? Everyone was petrified of me I had street cred coming out of my ear holes so..? More to the point I was getting away with(no I wont use the M word)"Everything!!" & Even the police didn't want to know with that in my hand, so Legalising them was the "LAST THING!!" I/We wanted!! My street cred would of plummeted if I robbed with a bank with an old webley or somthing & an elderly man pulled out an FN 57 & Just casually told me to "P-off!" I'd of been the laughing stock at wanno in the exercise yard (Wandsworth). I Mean it just makes me roll my eyes when I hear some say "Yeah but bring guns back & murders will go up!!" & the Even More Ridiculous 1 "If criminals get there hands on guns then that's it,there will be havock!!" (without sounding like im glamourising it,but...)I must have owned more handguns than you have fingers & toes(& I was no big time villain AT-ALL!!) but "Come on the part of London I come from if I Want a... Well I had my 1st gun when I was 17,I mean of course I had sawn-offs etc before when we were kids but I mean when I was 17 I got my 1st hand gun,& since then I began to get a flavour for them & went from standard revolvers to semi-auto's I Loved them,& I had such access to them that I changed for my own preference for eg the last 1's I had before my long sentence I got a Glock 17 & had it for about 12mths but I wanted something smaller so I got the glock 26 sub compact,but it was too small so I then sold that 1 too & got the glock 19 & it was perfect in my hand(all 9mm's) But my point being IF you who are reading this cannot get a tool (gun) but I can where does that leave you if I decide to rob you?? Especially if you are the type to not give in easily?? IN-SHORT "It Leaves YOU in BIG TROUBLE!!" (AND the POLICEMAN who comes empty handed to help You!!) Does it NOT?? SO Now ive bored you with all of that My 'Point' Being Criminals Are the ONLY 1's with access to guns (AND THEY KNOW IT!!!!) And as for 1 of the comments about "Yeah but security is cracking down on smuggling the penalties for possession of a firearms has gone up!!" DO You HONESTLY think I even asked the penalty of the possession if caught "Let alone Care!!??" Of Course I Didn't!! & Anyone who is like I was DONNOT want Firearms Legalised "BELIEVE-ME!!!!" Deny it all you like,I mean My neice could get a tool IF she WANTED at 18,They are There ANYWAY, So Why be the ONLY 1 Who hasn't got 1 to protect yourself,I could get a MAC-10 for £750 "IF" I "WANTED" One!! Hate Me All you like,but I'm giving You the advice that knowing what I do I would want My daughter or son to be able to protect thereselves Without having to worry about going to jail for it,because they will be the ONLY ones who are worried because the criminals sure as the sky's blue Don't!! Obviously I'm moving them out of this borough to be brought up,but should they avoid areas where there friends are because the danger they're in!! Hate mail WILL come in but I'm just opening up your eyes that clearly need opening!! Sorry I Forgot "For this/THESE Reasons I feel handguns definitely Should be legalised" And Know I Donnot have Anything to do with the above,not anymore,I have Children & I grew to see a life without crime.

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:spit:

 

Are you kidding?

 

Just to be clear, you're using an ill-constructed, ill-thought ramble by an ex-con to, in some way, prove that the proliferation of Guns is a good thing?

 

His argument boils down to "if criminals have guns, the public would be safer with guns". I'm not going bother with the sociological reasons why that's utter horse shit, the facts do it for me.

 

 

The United States has more guns and gun deaths than any other developed country in the world, researchers found.

A study by two New York City cardiologists found that the U.S. has 88 guns per 100 people and 10 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people — more than any of the other 27 developed countries they studied.

 

Japan, on the other hand, had only .6 guns per 100 people and .06 gun-related deaths per 100,000 people, making it the country with both the fewest guns per capita and the fewest gun-related deaths.

 

Drs. Sripal Bangalore, who works at NYU Langone Medical Center, and Dr. Franz Messerli of St. Luke’s Medical Center studied the statistics of guns per capita and gun deaths. They used firearm injury data from the World Health Organization and guns per capita data from the Small Arms Survey to put together a list of 27 developed countries.

They said they carried out their study because of what they said are seemingly baseless claims on either side of the gun control debate.

 

“I think we need more of what I would call evidence-based discussion and not merely people pulling things out of their hats,” Bangalore said. “We hear time and time again about these shootings, especially in the last year or so. A lot of claims are made…so we wanted to look at the data and see if any of this holds water.”

They concluded that more guns do not make people safer.

 

David Hemenway, a professor at the Harvard School of Public Health who specializes in injury research and is considered one of the top gun violence researchers in the country, said the there’s “no question” that the relationship between guns and gun deaths is real.

 

“It shouldn’t be really a surprise to people,” Hemenway said.

 

There are some caveats to the data, such as countries’ records of illegal guns, but it seems to be “reasonable” and on par with previous research, Hemenway said.

 

The National Rifle Association did not immediately respond to ABCNews.com request for comment.

Here’s the full list:

Guns

 

 

Weird when you look at which two countries suffer worst for gun crime... what else do they have in common?

 

But yeah, I'm sure you're right, all these other countries who've got gun control would see their gun crimes figures drop if only there were more guns, I mean, Hell, look at the country that's blazing that trail.

 

:jesuswept:

 

Edited by The Fish
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Just to be clear, you're using an ill-constructed, ill-thought ramble by an ex-con to, in some way, prove that the proliferation of Guns is a good thing?

No, not at all, I stumbled across it reading another article and thought I'd post it here as I knew it'd get some of you wetting the bed.

 

Seems to have done it's job :)

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No, not at all, I stumbled across it reading another article and thought I'd post it here as I knew it'd get some of you wetting the bed.

 

Seems to have done it's job :)

If by "wetting the bed" you mean, "being assured in the validity in our own arguments against the proliferation of guns", then by gumbo you're right.

 

Seems an odd thing to do though, I mean if you're trying to find something, anything, to support your case, why post an article that weakens your position?

 

Answer me this Yosemite Sam, how many dead children will it take before all these reasonable, rational American gun owners realise that something needs to be done, Oh and that thing definitely shouldn't be more guns?

 

Every few months some child gets their hands on a deadly weapon and tragedy ensues. Every few months some lunatic wanders into a populated place and attacks innocents with legally owned firearms. Every few months someone dies because the police officers seem to believe they're patrolling the Wild West.

 

and the Gun toters simply repeat their idiotic mantra "guns don't kill people, people kill people"

 

Highest gun ownership, highest number of gun deaths in "civilised" countries. You know when America isn't top of that list? When you have every country in the data set, including those which are currently in a state of war.

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Remember when I was that age and me and some mates were walking and one of the lads had a bb gun. Someone reported it and the police helicopter was brought out and a couple police cars pulled up and we were apprehended. We were as confused as hell when they arrived and started shouting. We were looking around thinking they were here for someone else.

 

Obviously treated seriously anywhere when someone of any age might be holding a gun. Glad I wasn't shot in the head as I stood there with a dumbfounded look on my face though.

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There's a harsh reality sometimes. I remember during the troubles in NI there were a spate of incidents where joyriders were shot by the army and my reaction was that they know the context of their situation so there's an element of responsibility.

 

The reality for black kids in the US should mean that they should take an extra moment before playing with toy guns. Of course its not right but sadly its how the world is.

 

Having said that I think 12 is a bit old for toy guns anyway so there might have been some element of posing.

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At what age do you need to start thinking twice before with playing with a toy gun though? 10? How do you teach a child that the nice policeman might kill him for playing with a toy.

 

I get what you're saying, but I don't accept that a 12 year old should have any reasonable expectation of dying for playing with a toy gun in the presence of a policeman.

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There's a harsh reality sometimes. I remember during the troubles in NI there were a spate of incidents where joyriders were shot by the army and my reaction was that they know the context of their situation so there's an element of responsibility.

 

The reality for black kids in the US should mean that they should take an extra moment before playing with toy guns. Of course its not right but sadly its how the world is.

 

Having said that I think 12 is a bit old for toy guns anyway so there might have been some element of posing.

Got to disagree there mate. A kid shouldn't have to consider the social, racial, economic tension of his situation at 12. He should be allowed to play with his mates without fear of a trained officer of the law shooting him to death in (if what alex says is true) moments.

 

Responsibility should lie with those responsible; the ones letting so many guns on the street that the police feel deadly force is a reasonable reaction to a child with a toy, however realistic it may be.

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Got to disagree there mate. A kid shouldn't have to consider the social, racial, economic tension of his situation at 12. He should be allowed to play with his mates without fear of a trained officer of the law shooting him to death in (if what alex says is true) moments.

 

Responsibility should lie with those responsible; the ones letting so many guns on the street that the police feel deadly force is a reasonable reaction to a child with a toy, however realistic it may be.

"Should" is the problem though. I'm not for one moment saying it serves him right or anything like that - just that caution isn't a bad idea if you do know your police force is fucked up.

 

I remember my sister arguing with someone when her kids were young that using a policeman as a bogeyman was wrong as if they get into trouble that's who they have to go to for help. Imagine trying to teach a black kid that in the US.

 

Of course we should debate it and suggest ways to improve it but in the meantime reality sucks.

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