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My worry is that our shite defence is like starting every game one nil down. Given we rarely score from our appalling set pieces and our strike force looks goal shy to me, we're relying on our midfield to score a lot of goals to win matches. We really need a kickass striker.

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My worry is that our shite defence is like starting every game one nil down. Given we rarely score from our appalling set pieces and our strike force looks goal shy to me, we're relying on our midfield to score a lot of goals to win matches. We really need a kickass striker.

 

Colback is on corners now, the future is bright (His napper is anyway).

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You made a list including HBA, Obertan and Jonas, who are almost certain to not play. Then you named loads of central players, a couple of who have been asked to play wide whilst here but aren't natural wide players, and many that are basically, completely shit.

 

Even if you distil it to:

Cabella

De Jong

Sissoko

Gouffran

Anita

Tiote

Colback

 

 

Even there you have a myriad of formations, systems and tactics.

 

I do agree that there are many options available in how we set up our central midfield though. I don't think we even have the players (that will be realistically used) to play a basic 4-4-2 without people being played out of position.

 

Why do you want to play a 4-4-2? The majority of chances are created through the middle, and given we haven't a centre forward in the Shearer mould, why would you want a stereotypical winger slinging crosses in?

 

We do have a flexible midfield, but it seems to me you're not in favour of flexibility, you're in favour of a 4-4-2 with classic wingers?

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4-4-2 is still a very effective and relevant formation if you have the players - but we don't have the players.

 

We got away with it a couple of times with Remy playing off Shola but it was never properly balanced or even close to that.

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Even if you distil it to:

Cabella

De Jong

Sissoko

Gouffran

Anita

Tiote

Colback

 

 

Even there you have a myriad of formations, systems and tactics.

 

 

Why do you want to play a 4-4-2? The majority of chances are created through the middle, and given we haven't a centre forward in the Shearer mould, why would you want a stereotypical winger slinging crosses in?

 

We do have a flexible midfield, but it seems to me you're not in favour of flexibility, you're in favour of a 4-4-2 with classic wingers?

 

I just think that sometimes you need the option to go back to basics. Our lack of classic wingers restricts our options quite a bit, we'll be predictably narrow with most formations and other teams will set up accordingly. You're right we don't have a centre forward with any real quality in the air - my response to that isn't to stop wanting us to have any wide-men, it's to want us to sign a proper centre forward! That we haven't got a forward that thrives on crosses is just another indicator of our lack of real options.

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I just think that sometimes you need the option to go back to basics. Our lack of classic wingers restricts our options quite a bit, we'll be predictably narrow with most formations and other teams will set up accordingly. You're right we don't have a centre forward with any real quality in the air - my response to that isn't to stop wanting us to have any wide-men, it's to want us to sign a proper centre forward! That we haven't got a forward that thrives on crosses is just another indicator of our lack of real options.

 

But we'd have to sign a rare centre forward and at least two wide men who can beat a man and deliver a cross. 4-4-2 is fine, but it's restrictive. 4-3-3 varieties are really useful for in-game flexibility.

 

Say this Newcastle side starts with a defensive 4-5-1 away at Arsenal, but they're having one of their wobbles, mid game you can switch to high pressing 4-3-3 with the full backs pushing up as ersatz wingers, you go 2 goals to the good, but half time comes around and a personnel change by Wenger brings Arsenal back into it, you can now switch back to the rigid, congested 4-5-1, or a solid 4-4-1-1 that looks to counter. All without having to make a substitution.

 

With a 4-4-2 using wingers and strikers in the classic mould you're much less flexible, the classic winger can't drop into the centre to be a water carrying player, or push up as an old inside forward, the second striker can't play from the half way line.

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But we'd have to sign a rare centre forward and at least two wide men who can beat a man and deliver a cross. 4-4-2 is fine, but it's restrictive. 4-3-3 varieties are really useful for in-game flexibility.

 

Say this Newcastle side starts with a defensive 4-5-1 away at Arsenal, but they're having one of their wobbles, mid game you can switch to high pressing 4-3-3 with the full backs pushing up as ersatz wingers, you go 2 goals to the good, but half time comes around and a personnel change by Wenger brings Arsenal back into it, you can now switch back to the rigid, congested 4-5-1, or a solid 4-4-1-1 that looks to counter. All without having to make a substitution.

 

With a 4-4-2 using wingers and strikers in the classic mould you're much less flexible, the classic winger can't drop into the centre to be a water carrying player, or push up as an old inside forward, the second striker can't play from the half way line.

 

 

But that's why we have substitutes, so we can make tactical changes. Having versatile players in a versatile formation is all well and good, but having specialist players, players in their best positions is more likely to bring us results. I don't think Pardew has the tactical nous to pull off the unlikely scenario you describe either.

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But that's why we have substitutes, so we can make tactical changes. Having versatile players in a versatile formation is all well and good, but having specialist players, players in their best positions is more likely to bring us results. I don't think Pardew has the tactical nous to pull off the unlikely scenario you describe either.

 

Remy Cabella is a hard working, technically gifted, creative, attacking midfielder who can play centrally or from either wing. You want to trade all of that for a Keith Gillespie?

 

End of the day, neither Newcastle nor any of the top sides play a classic 4-4-2, so why revert to the 90s style?

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Remy Cabella is a hard working, technically gifted, creative, attacking midfielder who can play centrally or from either wing. You want to trade all of that for a Keith Gillespie?

 

End of the day, neither Newcastle nor any of the top sides play a classic 4-4-2, so why revert to the 90s style?

 

I was using 4-4-2 as an example as to how we don't have 'many options', I'm not saying I want to play it. We can't play any formations that require classic wingers, we can't play any formations that involve a striker thriving on crosses because like you say, we haven't got one (i disagree with your statement that said strikers are particularly 'rare' though). The Gillespie/Cabella thing is a daft thing to say btw. I haven't suggested that I want to trade Cabella for an out-and-out winger, I'm just stating that we haven't got any. We haven't got the players to mix it up like people have said. I'm not against a 4-3-3. It's the arsekissing "oh we've had such a good window, we've got so many options now" crack that I'm opposed to. We haven't,

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I was using 4-4-2 as an example as to how we don't have 'many options', I'm not saying I want to play it. We can't play any formations that require classic wingers, we can't play any formations that involve a striker thriving on crosses because like you say, we haven't got one (i disagree with your statement that said strikers are particularly 'rare' though). The Gillespie/Cabella thing is a daft thing to say btw. I haven't suggested that I want to trade Cabella for an out-and-out winger, I'm just stating that we haven't got any. We haven't got the players to mix it up like people have said. I'm not against a 4-3-3. It's the arsekissing "oh we've had such a good window, we've got so many options now" crack that I'm opposed to. We haven't,

 

I think most people are happily surprised that we've managed to sign players of that caliber. Yes, we'd all like to have signed more and better, who wouldn't? but realistically a lot of people were expecting Colback to be the level of players we're chasing if anyone. ATP, Brock, Tooj all were predicting a very quiet summer and I'm sure we can agree that it's been surprisingly busy.

 

Perez aside, I think the player's we've signed either improve the first team or (in Janmaat's case) are like for like replacements. I see the signing of Cabella and De Jong as a dilution of the influence Cabaye had. When he left we were screwed but if one of those players is out for a while we're not suddenly looking to Anita for our creative spark.

 

I still hope we're getting another striker in and while I think the rumours of Grenier and Lacazette are "wide of the mark" I don't believe we're done.

 

If we were to sign those two, would that then be a good window? Personally I'd think it would be an outstanding window. We're still lacking at centre half, but I'd not be surprised if we'd identified a target but are waiting until Xmas before we sign him because Ashley et al (foolishly) think it's worth waiting until January if we can save £500k.

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I think most people are happily surprised that we've managed to sign players of that caliber. Yes, we'd all like to have signed more and better, who wouldn't? but realistically a lot of people were expecting Colback to be the level of players we're chasing if anyone. ATP, Brock, Tooj all were predicting a very quiet summer and I'm sure we can agree that it's been surprisingly busy.

 

Perez aside, I think the player's we've signed either improve the first team or (in Janmaat's case) are like for like replacements. I see the signing of Cabella and De Jong as a dilution of the influence Cabaye had. When he left we were screwed but if one of those players is out for a while we're not suddenly looking to Anita for our creative spark.

 

I still hope we're getting another striker in and while I think the rumours of Grenier and Lacazette are "wide of the mark" I don't believe we're done.

 

If we were to sign those two, would that then be a good window? Personally I'd think it would be an outstanding window. We're still lacking at centre half, but I'd not be surprised if we'd identified a target but are waiting until Xmas before we sign him because Ashley et al (foolishly) think it's worth waiting until January if we can save £500k.

 

Riviere aside too, given as it stands he's Remy's replacement and that's almost certainly going to be a step backwards (a very worrying one given the lack of goals in our team last season). I don't think our team is as strong as it was before Cabaye was sold. If we signed those two it'd be a great window, if we signed those 2 and a first team CB it'd be outstanding. For the prices quoted I'd prefer Remy, mind. I think us bringing anyone in now is dependent on us being able to shift some of the 'deadwood'. Not too optimistic about that.

Edited by ClubSpinDoctor
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Riviere aside too, given as it stands he's Remy's replacement and that's almost certainly going to be a step backwards (a very worrying one given the lack of goals in our team last season). I don't think our team is as strong as it was before Cabaye was sold. If we signed those two it'd be a great window, if we signed those 2 and a first team CB it'd be outstanding. For the prices quoted I'd prefer Remy, mind. I think us bringing anyone in now is dependent on us being able to shift some of the 'deadwood'. Not too optimistic about that.

 

I think Riviere has been signed as Shola's replacement.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bigi, Abeid, Ben Arfa or Obertan leaving, but I don't think the monies we'd get for them would be sufficient to make a proper contribution to the quoted prices for Lacazette and Grenier.

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Plenty of top teams use 4-4-2. Calling it out of date is simply absurd - although formations come and go - i can accept that - but I don't think it'll truly get left behind.

 

The prediction post World Cup 2010 is that 4-6-0 possession football would come into fashion - no quite.

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Plenty of top teams use 4-4-2. Calling it out of date is simply absurd - although formations come and go - i can accept that - but I don't think it'll truly get left behind.

 

The prediction post World Cup 2010 is that 4-6-0 possession football would come into fashion - no quite.

 

Which top teams use 4-4-2 consistently?

 

None of the following do:

Barcelona

Real Madrid

Bayern

Dortmund

Juve

Roma

PSG

Ajax

Man City

Chelsea

Arsenal

Man Utd

Spurs

Everton

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Man City & Spurs from that list - oh and la Liga champions Atlético Madrid...

Did atletico use 2 strikers? It was raul Garcia off costa wasn't it?

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Did atletico use 2 strikers? It was raul Garcia off costa wasn't it?

 

They would be play Villa and Costa up top as a duo, although admittedly Villa would drop back often and play behind the striker. More like a hybrid 4-4-2/4-4-1-1

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