Alex 30227 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 What they get up to in private is their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) I never said I blamed him for any of it (as I said the majority of managers he had here were shite also (Keegan wanted rid of him iirc)). All I said is that he was shite and we should want Sammy to be better than him. I've no doubt he will go down as a cult hero for his goals against the scum and his stellar penalty record but that doesn't change the fact that he was a player not up to the standard he was supposed to be playing at (as evidenced by the fact that once he left he signed for a Turkish 2nd tier team who are currently only off the bottom on goal difference and apparently have hardly anyone turning up to watch the games). I'm not sure that you can say we found his best position at the end though. He was fucking awful even by his standards the last two seasons. While I understand that he's not, nor ever has been, any good, I've never understood the anger he garners from his detractors. We've had countless players that weren't anywhere near the standard they were supposed to be, but something about Shola being thought well of, gets far more vitriol than someone like Bassedas or whomever. It's like they're taking a personal affront that he played for us and wasn't Romario. Cult heroes are supposed to be a bit shit, but I've never heard of one that splits opinion like Shola. There's a big group of fans who don't mind that he was largely average-to-poor with us and just enjoy the personality and warmly remember the good times, then there's another big group who hate Shola Ameobi so much that they hate Sammy Ameobi, all because he is the younger brother of a lad who'd biggest crimes (as far as I can see) are not being that good and being a local lad. I think the internet has hardened the negative view because a lot of people online have a laugh about Shola, and his detractors maybe take that as suggestion that those who do like him don't know that he was largely shit for us? The jokes and pictures and memes aren't a vindication of his talent, they're probably mostly the opposite; a gentle joke at his lack of talent but a recognition of his service. re: moving to a Turkish 2nd div side, that might also be because he's 33? I'd say he could still be doing a job in the bottom half of the Championship/ League One etc. I can't imagine he's gone there that because of the standard of football, he's probably moved there for a bit of cash, somewhere sunny, where he can slowly retire. What's the problem with that? Again, I said I'd be content if Sammy had a mostly top flight career with goals at the Nou Camp, a great penalty record and a reputation for playing well against the mackems. Obviously I'd love for him to be Pele, but let's be realistic, he'll most likely be a bang average footballer who's moved on to Birmingham or Middlesbrough when his Premier League career stalls partly due to lack of chances and partly due to lack of talent. Edited October 28, 2014 by The Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3956 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 I like Shola as a bloke, I just think he was a fucking shit footballer. As I've said before, it speaks volumes to me that only one manager saw through him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 (edited) If he does return next summer when his contract expires,he may well sign for a championship club ( us or the makems ? ) and will again be a squad player.In his prime he wouldn't have been a regular in a top half championship team. Edited October 28, 2014 by essembeeofsunderland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden McGroin 4797 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 He was too good for the championship but not good enough for a top half PL club. Thats partly why we took to him in his latter years here as we have no aspirations these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Stoke took him on loan and chased him before his loan spell was over.Did any other club ever show any interest in signing him ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19720 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Shola was pretty pap in the main, despite looking like a world beater on the odd day he decided to show up. I can't believe the club he's ended up at though. I didn't think he was that shit, he could surely do a job in the championship and if he fancied a payday in the sun it's hard to imagine him not being able to find a yank or Aussie club. Strange move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyluke 1 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Shola should never have had the career he had with us, he should have been nowhere near the first team when he was scoring those goals against the mackems. He's become a bit of a cult hero, due to those goals, his length of service and the fact it's just nicer not to be pissed off with someone all the time, ie if you're stuck with them you might as well be fond of them. It's like having an idiot, useless brother. He might ruin your parties, cost you loads of money and end up pissing you off with his uselessness even though you know deep down it's not all or at least not entirely his fault, but every now and then he shows glimpses of not being a feckless idiot like getting you a thoughtful present, and anyway he's still your brother and you still love him. But you wouldn't want another brother like that. Anyone having a career like Shola for us would be disappointing, I think it's bizarre to state you'd be happy if Sammy had one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 When is his testimonial ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1115 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 While I understand that he's not, nor ever has been, any good, I've never understood the anger he garners from his detractors. We've had countless players that weren't anywhere near the standard they were supposed to be, but something about Shola being thought well of, gets far more vitriol than someone like Bassedas or whomever. It's like they're taking a personal affront that he played for us and wasn't Romario. Cult heroes are supposed to be a bit shit, but I've never heard of one that splits opinion like Shola. There's a big group of fans who don't mind that he was largely average-to-poor with us and just enjoy the personality and warmly remember the good times, then there's another big group who hate Shola Ameobi so much that they hate Sammy Ameobi, all because he is the younger brother of a lad who'd biggest crimes (as far as I can see) are not being that good and being a local lad. I think the internet has hardened the negative view because a lot of people online have a laugh about Shola, and his detractors maybe take that as suggestion that those who do like him don't know that he was largely shit for us? The jokes and pictures and memes aren't a vindication of his talent, they're probably mostly the opposite; a gentle joke at his lack of talent but a recognition of his service. re: moving to a Turkish 2nd div side, that might also be because he's 33? I'd say he could still be doing a job in the bottom half of the Championship/ League One etc. I can't imagine he's gone there that because of the standard of football, he's probably moved there for a bit of cash, somewhere sunny, where he can slowly retire. What's the problem with that? Again, I said I'd be content if Sammy had a mostly top flight career with goals at the Nou Camp, a great penalty record and a reputation for playing well against the mackems. Obviously I'd love for him to be Pele, but let's be realistic, he'll most likely be a bang average footballer who's moved on to Birmingham or Middlesbrough when his Premier League career stalls partly due to lack of chances and partly due to lack of talent. I'm not in either of the camps you mention, I just simply recongnised that he never lived up to the early promise and for whatever reason never became a player of Premier league quality. But I think the camp that do vilify him more than dross like Bassedas or Charvet or whoever, do so because we were forced to see him trot out for more than a decade. At least the others were shipped out reasonably sharpish. Of course that's not his fault though. You yourself admit he wasn't good enough yet you seem to be arguing that you would rather his brother ended up like him not being good enough yet hanging around for ten years of mostly dross than be released to play at a level that suited him. I don't understand that view point. Of course we'd all like to see him turn into Ronaldo (and of course we know that won't happen) but there is plenty inbetween where he is a regularly useful player. Ranging from the likes of Aaron Hughes who was solid all the way up to Shearer who was exceptional. We shouldn't be settling for not good enough. Fuck knows what's going on with him being in Turkey but I suspect he wasn't inundated with offers from the Championship so he went somewhere he was wanted. I find it odd if there wasn't teams in Australia/America/wherever after him that would have been better than where he ended up like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Aaron Hughes was a very good utility player and at his best would get a game for us now in either central defence,left back,right back,or as a holding midfield player.The same goes for Steve Watson.Maybe this is just a sign of how poor we are in certain ( most ) postions.Back to Shola.You are spot on when you say we had him forced on us for ten years when he should have been shipped out very early into his career.For ten years whenever we had an injury to a striker,Shoala always seemed to be the answer in many managers eyes yet proved he was rarely the answer ,and on and on it went for a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 can't believe this is still rumbling on. I'd be distraught if he had a career like Amir Zaki I'd be unhappy if he had a career like Paul Dalglish I'd be disappointed if he had a career like Paul Robinson I'd be content if he had a career like Shola I'd be happy if he had a career like Hughes I'd be delighted if he had a career like Speed I'd be over the moon if he had a career like Shearer I'd wank myself into an early grave if he had a career like Messi Clearer? You two seem to be confusing being content with Sammy having an average Premier League career, with wanting it? My opinion is " Whatever, that's fine" Again the worst thing Shola seems to be guilty of is not being sold and not having the level of ability you find in the players in the next strata. As someone else (Holden) said he's been a top of the Championship/Bottom of the Premier League player for pretty much his entire career. At times that worked for us because that's where we were and at times he was way off the level we needed. Throughout he's been an excellent ambassador for the club, he's not a sycophant like Fistpump Taylor, but his loyalty is unquestionable. Actually there's a point, Taylor is a cunt, he's always been a cunt, he'll always be a cunt. He's not that good (bottom of the Prem, top of the Championship), his inability arguably has cost us more than Shola's ever has, his behaviour (on and off the pitch) is embarrassing, I'd argue he'd be on a similar wage and he's the one that consistently makes noises about wanting to leave in order to get a new contract. If you wanted to focus vitriol at any recent long-serving player, it'd be Taylor top of the list, not Shola. Yet he seems to avoid the same level of criticism because of his faux passion and empty platitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38535 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 and on and on it went for a decade. Ex Mrs. Essemmbee's stated reason in the divorce papers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30227 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Shola's 'cult status' coincided with the club being at its lowest ebb in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Shola's 'cult status' coincided with the club being at its lowest ebb in years. Yup. I see it as an indication of where we were/are as a club. When much of the club is in the shit, you have to find a laugh from somewhere. Gallows humour in full effect. Mind you, if Robson had taken over from Keegan I doubt many would even remember who Shola Ameobi was. He'd have gone the same way as Richard Offiong or Michael Chopra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1115 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 can't believe this is still rumbling on. I'd be distraught if he had a career like Amir Zaki I'd be unhappy if he had a career like Paul Dalglish I'd be disappointed if he had a career like Paul Robinson I'd be content if he had a career like Shola I'd be happy if he had a career like Hughes I'd be delighted if he had a career like Speed I'd be over the moon if he had a career like Shearer I'd wank myself into an early grave if he had a career like Messi Clearer? You two seem to be confusing being content with Sammy having an average Premier League career, with wanting it? My opinion is " Whatever, that's fine" Again the worst thing Shola seems to be guilty of is not being sold and not having the level of ability you find in the players in the next strata. As someone else (Holden) said he's been a top of the Championship/Bottom of the Premier League player for pretty much his entire career. At times that worked for us because that's where we were and at times he was way off the level we needed. Throughout he's been an excellent ambassador for the club, he's not a sycophant like Fistpump Taylor, but his loyalty is unquestionable. Actually there's a point, Taylor is a cunt, he's always been a cunt, he'll always be a cunt. He's not that good (bottom of the Prem, top of the Championship), his inability arguably has cost us more than Shola's ever has, his behaviour (on and off the pitch) is embarrassing, I'd argue he'd be on a similar wage and he's the one that consistently makes noises about wanting to leave in order to get a new contract. If you wanted to focus vitriol at any recent long-serving player, it'd be Taylor top of the list, not Shola. Yet he seems to avoid the same level of criticism because of his faux passion and empty platitudes. I wouldn't be content if he had a career like Shola because if that was all he amounted to and stayed here the whole time, we'd have a pretty rank average player and we'd be a pretty poor side if we were accomodating that. I agree with what Alex said in that Shola became a cult hero because he's been here when we've generally been wank. If he'd played most of his career through the hieghts of Keegan and Robson he'd be considered universally like Serrant/Brady/Disco Des. But of course they wouldn't have relied on him like we have through Souness/Roeder/Fat Cunt Sam/Kinnear/Hughton/Pardew. I disagree that he was a bottom half of the premiership player, certainly not in the last five years (maybe around the time that Roeder actually got some performances from him). He's been Championship level since before we were actually playing there. As for Taylor yeah you're right he's a tosser and he's been lower prem level at a push for a number of years too. Like Shola I think it's a shame he's never really come close to reaching his potential (maybe he did when he was first choice with Colo when we finished 5th) although I think he's certainly being hampered there by having a complete fuckwit managing him during what should be his prime. I don't think he'll ever be looked upon in the same way as Shola probably by either of the camps you mentioned earlier. Unless he stays for another 5 years or more and is as incompetant as he's been over the last couple of seasons I don't think he'll get the same (unfair) hatred that Shola gets from some, nor do I think he'll ever be looked upon as fondly because as has been perfectly stated, he's thicker than whale spunk. I agree this has been a bit of a pointless argument but then again isn't that what this place is for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1115 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Who the fuck is Amir Zaki by the way? I assume he must have played for us at one point but I have no memory of him at all. And I'm guessing from the other players you mentioned he must have been in the premier league era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 We can all agree that Mbiwa is good though, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1115 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Not on the right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Who the fuck is Amir Zaki by the way? I assume he must have played for us at one point but I have no memory of him at all. And I'm guessing from the other players you mentioned he must have been in the premier league era? No, he never played for us, he was an Egyptian (?) striker who went on an unbelievable goal scoring run for Wigan then slowly it became clear he was a greedy anti-Semitic thundercunt. I just needed a player who's career spiralled rapidly and he was the first one tht sprung to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1115 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 No, he never played for us, he was an Egyptian (?) striker who went on an unbelievable goal scoring run for Wigan then slowly it became clear he was a greedy anti-Semitic thundercunt. I just needed a player who's career spiralled rapidly and he was the first one tht sprung to mind.Ah you confused me with the addition of an I in his first name I knew I recognised the name but the context confused me. Yes I think we can all agree we wouldn't want Sammy to turn out like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Ah you confused me with the addition of an I in his first name I knew I recognised the name but the context confused me. Yes I think we can all agree we wouldn't want Sammy to turn out like him. Who spells Amir without an I? Bloody Egyptians, they're all the same, leaving letters out of things, it's an abmntn! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1115 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Racist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3417 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Who spells Amir without an I? Bloody Egyptians, they're all the same, leaving letters out of things, it's an abmntn! Amr and Amir have two very different meanings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8946 Posted October 28, 2014 Share Posted October 28, 2014 Amr and Amir have two very different meanings Yeah, one is the name of a tool with which you hit a nail, the other is a declaration made on ones arrival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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