Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 it's truly bizarre that some of the most left leaning posters on here seem to be defending trump It's like how the left defend the misogynistic tendencies of Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 It's like how the left defend the misogynistic tendencies of Islam. Where? Quotes if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Where? Quotes if possible. It's a common theme. Gemmill has no issue with the burqa for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) It's like how the left defend the misogynistic tendencies of Islam. I think it would be to the benefit of everyone if Islam as a political movement was separated from Islam as a religious faith. But that said, Islam is a right wing, regressive and misogynistic ideology that we should not pander to. I think that sticks more as a political ideology though, rather than a faith. The left certainly has a problem with Islam and I've not understood how it has managed to get itself into this position. Ultimately I think identity politics, in some wings of the left, now outscores actual left wing thinking. People on that side are a problem, but I've not see anyone like that on TT... Edited November 2, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34197 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 It's a common theme. Gemmill has no issue with the burqa for instance.Wait a minute. You said you wouldn't see a doctor who wore a burqa. That's a problem with the person, not the burqa. I said I don't give a fuck, she can wear what she wants. It's a bizarre interpretation of the above that characterises me as the one in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Does Gemnil have a problem with burqas too? Edited November 2, 2016 by TheGingerQuiff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Wait a minute. You said you wouldn't see a doctor who wore a burqa. That's a problem with the person, not the burqa. I said I don't give a fuck, she can wear what she wants. It's a bizarre interpretation of the above that characterises me as the one in the wrong. Actually, it's not that at all. My problem isn't with the person who wears the Burqa, it's with the disgusting misogynistic religion which imposes this on her purely as a byproduct of her birth. It's simply not right imo. Your either excusing this because you (laughably) think she's wearing this hideous garment of her own free will, or because you trump the religious reedoms of her tribe over western secular values, or you don't give a shit. It's probably the latter tbh. But it is amazing how many left slanting individuals turn a blind eye to cultural practices that are abhorrent to their own values. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34197 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Actually, it's not that at all. My problem isn't with the person who wears the Burqa, it's with the disgusting misogynistic religion which imposes this on her purely as a byproduct of her birth. It's simply not right imo. Your either excusing this because you (laughably) think she's wearing this hideous garment of her own free will, or because you trump the religious reedoms of her tribe over western secular values, or you don't give a shit. It's probably the latter tbh. But it is amazing how many left slanting individuals turn a blind eye to cultural practices that are abhorrent to their own values. [emoji38] It's none of my fucking business. That's all. You're fucking ridiculous at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26192 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 So is it cultural or religious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) [emoji38] It's none of my fucking business. That's all. You're fucking ridiculous at times.Okay, we're allowed to disagree. I think some things are society's business, it's not a ridiculous position. So does France. You don't have a problem talking to a jawa about possibly intimate problems. I find that literally incredible, but at least you have stated that. As far as I remember, no other "lefty" offered an opinion. Wonder if they will now. Edited November 2, 2016 by Renton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 So is it cultural or religious? Imo, one of the problems with Islam is that it combines religion, culture, and politics. It's an incredibly toxic combination from the pov of an atheistic secularist, which is most people on this board, whether they care to admit or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2406 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Gemmers the cultural relativist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2406 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I think the French government forcing Muslim women to remove their headdress is an interesting one. There's arguments on both sides that I feel are reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Okay, we're allowed to disagree. I think some things are society's business, it's not a ridiculous position. So does France. You don't have a problem talking to a jawa about possibly intimate problems. I find that literally incredible, but at least you have stated that. As far as I remember, no other "lefty" offered an opinion. Wonder if they will now. I think it would be to the benefit of everyone if Islam as a political movement was separated from Islam as a religious faith. But that said, Islam is a right wing, regressive and misogynistic ideology that we should not pander to. I think that sticks more as a political ideology though, rather than a faith. The left certainly has a problem with Islam and I've not understood how it has managed to get itself into this position. Ultimately I think identity politics, in some wings of the left, now outscores actual left wing thinking. People on that side are a problem, but I've not see anyone like that on TT... Edited November 2, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 It's interesting Rayvin that you don't seem to get that Islam is a political as well as a religious movement. Why wouldn't it be? It's the logical conclusion of people who believe the only power of importance is Allah, then you get a theocracy, don't you? Incidentally, this answers your earlier question as to whether an Islamic country can be a democracy (either asked by you or asked of you iirc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 I think the French government forcing Muslim women to remove their headdress is an interesting one. There's arguments on both sides that I feel are reasonable. Same here, not sold on the idea of banning clothes in a free society. The Burkini thing this summer was an absolute joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven 0 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Let's be clear here, Trump won't be having any Burkinis at his beach resorts that's for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Edit: rereading your post Rayvin, we probably agree. So more aimed at the other lefties in your band. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Let's be clear here, Trump won't be having any Burkinis at his beach resorts that's for sure. Not even for the fat ugly ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) Edit: rereading your post Rayvin, we probably agree. So more aimed at the other lefties in your band. .. Ok thanks, was just gonna post a fairly confused response. I thought your other point about Islam and democracy was interesting though; Indonesia is the closest we get. Although they're technically secular, they have a very large Muslim majority. That's probably something all Islamic countries could aspire to over time. Edited November 2, 2016 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3183 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Actually, it's not that at all. My problem isn't with the person who wears the Burqa, it's with the disgusting misogynistic religion which imposes this on her purely as a byproduct of her birth. It's simply not right imo. Your either excusing this because you (laughably) think she's wearing this hideous garment of her own free will, or because you trump the religious reedoms of her tribe over western secular values, or you don't give a shit. It's probably the latter tbh. But it is amazing how many left slanting individuals turn a blind eye to cultural practices that are abhorrent to their own values. Actually the Qu'ran only states that women should dress modestly and cover their heads (as does the bible) the burqa is a ghastly tribal thing brought into Islam. I do find it ironic that the hijab which is worn to be modest totally gives me the horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 The burqa is a ghastly tribal thing brought into Islam. Ironically, it's strongest proponents will be the most delighted by western secular societies banning it and stoking up the "war on Islam" sentiment too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17637 Posted November 2, 2016 Share Posted November 2, 2016 Ironically, it's strongest proponents will be the most delighted by western secular societies banning it and stoking up the "war on Islam" sentiment too. Okay, so I guess you're happy to allow it then HF? Or at least not want to ban it? So we as modern secularist thinkers have to double guess the islamists so as not to appear warmongering? Tell you what, why don't we take a proper stance here and declare a full face covering is simply incompatible with our values and therefore is illegal on this particular rock on the western edge of Europe? Why don't we declare such misogynistic practices disgust us and if these idiots will terrorise us as result, we'll resist them? Or as you suggest, do we just accept it in order to appease these woman haters and immediate retaliation from brainwashed male counterparts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonotl 2406 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 I think a government policing dress is overreach. I think most Muslim women wear the shame-curtains willingly and with a certain amount of misplaced pride. But that's okay, for me. The French government forcing Muslim women to remove their burkinis was needlessly humiliating and can only foment a bad atmosphere. However, that's not to say that I'm in with the radical Leftist, West-haters who think every time a terrorist farts it's the West's fault. That's just silly leftist-social-Marxist radicals joining with their Islamist fellow travellers on the pilgrimage to apocalypse, and trying to attach a political motivation so they can hate the West together along the way. That's crap. The Islamists hate us. We know why. It's for religious reasons. Anyway, there are certain things that cannot be tolerated and against which a stand must be made, but people have a right to be oppressed by their own beliefs, as long as it's only themselves they're oppressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Okay, so I guess you're happy to allow it then HF? Or at least not want to ban it? So we as modern secularist thinkers have to double guess the islamists so as not to appear warmongering? Tell you what, why don't we take a proper stance here and declare a full face covering is simply incompatible with our values and therefore is illegal on this particular rock on the western edge of Europe? Why don't we declare such misogynistic practices disgust us and if these idiots will terrorise us as result, we'll resist them? Or as you suggest, do we just accept it in order to appease these woman haters and immediate retaliation from brainwashed male counterparts? Of course we accept it. We are a free society. We are not people who restrict the rights of people to wear certain clothes whether it's a burka, a balaclava or a full motorcycle helmet with Bunny rabbit ears. It's no more our place to force a woman to stop wearing clothes than it is for us to force her to leave her husband if he beats her. As frustrating as it might be she gets to make her choices and you only punish someone when crimes are committed. First they went for her burka and I cheered because i'm scared of Muslims. Then they came for my balaclava which was really annoying because it keeps my ears and cheeks nice and warm when I'm skiing in Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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