Rayvin 4949 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The politicians are out in force for this one - Corbyn tbf because this is his constituency; May presumably because she'd be hammered otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Another religiously motivated attempted attack on a police officer at Paddington station, London. Is this the worst London has had it since the blitz? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 London is having a nightmare at the minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19743 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 it may seem that way from afar, but on the ground here in the capital, these attacks aren't changing a thing about london life. if anything, they seem to be bringing people together. we're talking about a handful of nutters vs a city of 9 million. the response in borough market as soon as it re-opened was fantastic. just as crowded, if not more so than usual. i went out there for beers on thursday night and it was heaving, with a brilliant atmosphere. you wouldn't have known what had happened just a couple of weeks earlier. i think it's been the same story in manchester tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19743 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 the grenfell tower tragedy on the other hand is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Have always respected the resilience of Londoners through turmoil. That's not in question, but what is is that it appears to be the current hotbed for terrorist acts in the Western world. You cannot dispute that. Sad times. The Grenfell Tower tragedy was also extremely unfortunate no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14528 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, Ken said: Another religiously motivated attempted attack on a police officer at Paddington station, London. Is this the worst London has had it since the blitz?  In the 70s,80s & 90s the ira gave London a hard time too. I got "nicked" just after they bombed the CoL in 94 retreiving a half drunk crate of cans from beneath a skip at the Shell building near Waterloo station. We'd been at a beastie boys gig in Brixton and hadn't drank them all on the way up. Plod wanted to know what the fuck some gobshite with an inderterminate accent was doing retrieving metal cylinders from underneath skips at 1130 at night. Had to prove I was who I said I was. To be sure   They bombed pubs, Harrods, the CoL as I've mentioned. They also, in my anecdotal experience, enjoyed complicit and vocal support from the huge Irish community in London. The difference is there were maybe only a dozen media outlets back then.None of them operated 24-7 and none of them could display shocking images across the globe in milliseconds. Also no social media to give another completely skewed and partial angle to the suffering of our fellow citizens. I think that's why it seems like the end of days this summer. It's not.  My old man ran building sites in the south of England during the 70s and he lost all his (very large) Irish labour force for a week or so now and then, around the time of the Guildford pub bombings and the Harrods attack etc. The local police just rounded up every Irishman they could find and put them in the police cells for a few days until they could confirm who they were, basically interred then. Wouldn't happen now. Point is we've been "under attack" before and cone out the other side. Same will happen this time but the timescale is unknowable at the moment.  2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Was born in '78 and only a kid during the most intense of the IRA's activities. Got a grasp of what was going on in the late '80's and early '90s but as you say reporting of it wasn't prolific especially over here. What you describe is pretty bad. Hope things don't get as bad as that tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 Now a car has rammed into a police car in Paris on Champs-Elysees. Unconfirmed yet whether it is terror related but looking that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17632 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 The Paddington attack wasn't terror related.  The comparison with the IRA is interesting. On the one hand, the IRA were much better organised and technically proficient, they were a whisker away from assassinating Thatcher. On the other hand, they were much more specific in their targeting, although still massacred civilians on occasions. They were also largely politically motivated rather than religious. This is important because their goals were attainable and they didn't commit suicide.  Overall though I'd say the IRA were a much greater threat. Cheers May for risking all of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14528 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, Renton said: Cheers May for risking all of that.  I certainly don't feel sorry for her in any way but the way her colleagues are basically hanging her out to dry and letting her be the lightning conductor for all the nation's woes is very instructive. Her loyalty to those she serves is in a way very impressive, that is if it wasn't verging on Stockholm Syndrome. I  think she's going to try to tough it out until early 2019 when she'll deliver a Brexit of sorts. They'll let her do it because no one else is willing to carry the can for the upcoming clusterfuck. She's quite plainly fuckin mad iyam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:  I certainly don't feel sorry for her in any way but the way her colleagues are basically hanging her out to dry and letting her be the lightning conductor for all the nation's woes is very instructive. Her loyalty to those she serves is in a way very impressive, that is if it wasn't verging on Stockholm Syndrome. I  think she's going to try to tough it out until early 2019 when she'll deliver a Brexit of sorts. They'll let her do it because no one else is willing to carry the can for the upcoming clusterfuck. She's quite plainly fuckin mad iyam.  I can't help but think they've got something on her. As in, if she goes now, they'll make sure her name carries the can for all the hell that follows.  Unfortunately, that's why we need to be unforgiving and relentless in the criticism of her. Until she goes. Edited June 19, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5890 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 6 hours ago, Ken said: I'm afraid this is the new norm in your country. This is exactly what ISIS and the scum who uphold in Sharia practices have been praying for. It is a divider and has reached new levels now. The talk in Muslim society will be about Islamophobia.  That article is repulsive btw.  You missed out an earlier step in the chain though. The West's invasion of the Middle East which in turn created the likes of ISIS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5890 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Rayvin said: The politicians are out in force for this one - Corbyn tbf because this is his constituency; May presumably because she'd be hammered otherwise.  May cant do right for doing wrong tbf. If she visits these attack sites she gets abused and chased back into her car. If she doesn't she's a callous bitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@yourservice 67 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 3 hours ago, Renton said: The Paddington attack wasn't terror related.  The comparison with the IRA is interesting. On the one hand, the IRA were much better organised and technically proficient, they were a whisker away from assassinating Thatcher. On the other hand, they were much more specific in their targeting, although still massacred civilians on occasions. They were also largely politically motivated rather than religious. This is important because their goals were attainable and they didn't commit suicide.  Overall though I'd say the IRA were a much greater threat. Cheers May for risking all of that.  Did the IRA not warn of a bombing with code names etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17632 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 1 hour ago, @yourservice said:  Did the IRA not warn of a bombing with code names etc? As Ant says, aye, usually, but then there was the likes of Guildford, Woolwich, and Birmingham. Always seemed to be bombs going off in NI as well.  Thing is, although it was sectarian there was a clearly defined political agenda which was achievable. I've argued for months Islamic fundamentalism is a completely different kettle of fish motivated by religious dogma and personal gain in the afterlife. Its aim is global domination and annihilation of infidels. He sees it more of a political agenda from what I can tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted June 19, 2017 Share Posted June 19, 2017 (edited) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_Islam  It's both what you say, and a political ideology. Edited June 19, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19743 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 That's the worry - will they ever relent? It's hard to imagine them ever agreeing to an equivalent of the good Friday agreement, given their stated objectives - even if western forces were to withdraw from conflicts in the Middle East. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19743 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 So we have an indefinite amount of time to live with this potential threat hanging over us. The so-called war on terror is a bit like the war on drugs - I'm not sure how it's ever going to be won.  Jim Jefferies has got it right on this one. The only way to fight hate is with love, which is why the way communities across the country have united and displayed great humanity in offering shelter and support for those affected, has been exactly the right response.  Unfortunately there will also be nutcases on both sides of this "war" as we saw in Finsbury Park yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 15 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: So we have an indefinite amount of time to live with this potential threat hanging over us. The so-called war on terror is a bit like the war on drugs - I'm not sure how it's ever going to be won.  Jim Jefferies has got it right on this one. The only way to fight hate is with love, which is why the way communities across the country have united and displayed great humanity in offering shelter and support for those affected, has been exactly the right response.  Unfortunately there will also be nutcases on both sides of this "war" as we saw in Finsbury Park yesterday.  I don't even think pulling out of the ME will make much difference now that we're dealing with homegrown problems.  The only way to win this is culturally, and involves the neutering of Islam and conversion of it into what Christianity is today - a benign force and cultural throwback.  But by the time we do that, we'll have other political terrorists on our hands. I'd imagine probably economically motivated ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said: That's the worry - will they ever relent? It's hard to imagine them ever agreeing to an equivalent of the good Friday agreement, given their stated objectives - even if western forces were to withdraw from conflicts in the Middle East.  The fact that it is suicide attacks rather than conventional gives me hope that they'd prefer not to be doing it when all is said and done.  If the states that fund terrorism and propaganda are diplomatically swayed away from doing so. If Middle eastern governments are allowed to self rule without western "democracy" being forced on them. If bombs with "Made in the USA" or "Made in the UK" stop getting dropped on weddings, funerals, hospitals and that. If Gaza settlement exapansion can be halted and even a two state solution agreed. That's the sort of stuff that will remove the incentive and reduce the brainwashing that goes on.  Obviously you can't negotiate with lone wolves, but no-one should ignore that state actors are involved with perpetuating the motivating factors for lone wolves that could be mitigated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 (edited) 21 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said:  You missed out an earlier step in the chain though. The West's invasion of the Middle East which in turn created the likes of ISIS Al Qaeda and ISIS are borne out of the result of opposing Western Democracy, yes, but they kill each other too, and it is also borne out of a need to be the purest of the Islamic faith so-to-speak, and that is to revert to medieval philosophy and tradition, and who believes the 'truer' version of the religion. Edited June 20, 2017 by Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken 119 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 Points have been made; This is different from the conflict with the IRA. The IRA sought independence. Radical Islam's goal is to create a caliphate and to destroy the non-believers - women and children included - and by whatever means possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted June 20, 2017 Share Posted June 20, 2017 http://www.news.com.au/world/europe/explosion-at-brussels-train-station-one-suspect-reportedly-shot/news-story/5b8eec59a72ee9d7fb69290b9017e76e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted June 21, 2017 Share Posted June 21, 2017 The police are pulling resources from other areas of their organisation in order to commit more attention to counter-terrorism apparently. Â Would be nice if someone would just give them the funding they need to be effective... Â https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/21/stretched-police-shelving-investigations-focus-on-terrorism-met-chief-cressida-dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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