Terrorism

[Kid Dynamite 5890]

Well mine is a hypothetical doctor who wears a full head to toe jobby. She's got a PhDand wouldn't see Renton even if he wanted to because she doesn't like defenders of oppressed female followers of Islam. And she dresses like that to be ironic

[Renton 17629]

Incredible to me anyone intelligent enough to be a doctor is so indoctrinated into the community hoodoo.

Good point, it is hypothetical as as far as I am aware the huge majority of women who wear full face coverings are subjugated to the extent that they would never be in the position to be a doctor. Or solicitor, politician etc.Yet most on here have no issue with that.

 

But if we lower the bar a bit, what about a nurse, maybe a mental health nurse, for instance? Is it okay for a mental health nurse to insist on full face coverings? Is it okay for the patient to object to this or would that make them racist?

[toonotl 2406]

... despite the Isis claim that their primary motivation is that ALL unbelievers should die.

For everyone's benefit, ISIS have not made this a primary motivation and I didn't claim that they have.

 

This is the same as last time. HF has lost the argument and is now lying and misrepresenting the arguments being made against him to build a straw man of an argument to argue against.

 

That being said, HF's argument that 'he can't imagine Islamists doing x' is still not an argument that holds any water.

 

Hilarious that HF can't even win the argument when he goes to all the trouble of holding straw men to argue against.

 

He can't even argue his side of the argument well when the opposition is the his deluded imaginings of what has been said against him.

[toonotl 2406]

Isis don't have limited capacity do they? The attackers they encourage don't work in organised cells with funding and top down planning. They don't await orders. The whole spoint is that Muslims independently attack non believers anywhere in the world.

 

None seem to in countries that have not interfered in the Muslim world though.

 

Belgium is a participant in the ongoing military intervention against ISIL. ISIL stated Belgium was targeted as "a country participating in the international coalition against the Islamic State"

 

Bangladesh was a coalition member in Iraq before the Japanese tourist murder. ISIL stated after the attack "There will continue to be a series of ongoing security operations against nationals of crusader coalition countries"

 

And of Nice, Isis said "He carried out the operation in response to calls to target nationals of states that are part of the coalition fighting Islamic State."

 

My scope was anything outside of the number 1 PRIMARY motive you and Toonotl insisted had to be taken as fact. Blasphemy only came in at number 4 on that list so can't be what radicalised anyone, by your rules.

 

So we still don't have any examples of anyone being radicalised enough to attack a target solely because it's non-muslim. Let alone a majority of them. This suggests to me that non believers aren't what gets them angriest.

ISIS has unlimited POWWWWERRRR. Fuckin retard.

[Dr Gloom 19743]

Some poor lass she would be a postgrad qualified doctor man, not some backwater downtrodden lass who gets kicked in every night off her hubby.

Except she wouldn't would she?

[toonotl 2406]

Just read the rest of that pile of dumb from HF about Iceland. The ability for irrational argument is so strong in you HF. Each post is an avalanche of stupid. It would take an hour to point out each bit of idiot for you to ignore that you've been proven wrong and move on to the next element of idiocy that pops into your brain. This is pointless.

 

Rents: good luck, ya racist bastard.

 

 

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[Kid Dynamite 5890]

I'm gonna let Toonotl, Renton and Gloom continue their high fives in here and watch some telly

[toonotl 2406]

Antique Roadshow started, ya boring cunt?

 

 

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[toonotl 2406]

[emoji8]

 

 

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[Happy Face 29]

 

 despite the Isis claim that their primary motivation is that ALL unbelievers should die.

 

 

 

For everyone's benefit, ISIS have not made this a primary motivation and I didn't claim that they have.

 

ISIS have stated specifically that they fight us because we are their religious enemies.

 

They fight us for their religion and will continue to do so until we are (i) converted, (ii) conquered, or (iii) dead.

 

ISIS never said politics was not a motivating factor. They said it is SECONDARY. The PRIMARY motivating factor is religion. 

 

This is the exact argument we've been having here.

 

The religion is the prime mover of these people, anything else is SECONDARY, by their own admission.

 

 

I'll leave it for others to decide if my paraphrasing deviated to a massive extent from the point you were making.

[toonotl 2406]

Thanks. It's pretty obvious you have completely bent what I said. Anyone with a brain could see.

 

I said, converted, conquered or dead.

 

You said I said dead.

 

Pretty clear difference.

 

HF presents: the liar HF.

 

No wonder you have such an issue with Ashley lying. People often take issue with that within themselves they hate the most.

 

 

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[Renton 17629]

Think toonotl and myself are saying ISIS motives are primarily religious, not political HF. But just in case it escapes you, with this branch of Islam both are the same. Which is why they can't be reasoned with, and why we have a fundamental clash of culture here. Honestly, what's the point in this argument any more? You're clearly a clever bloke who can't see the nose in front of his face. Go to Syria and let them remove it for you.

[toonotl 2406]

I'm going to Iceland where it's safe away from the unlimited power of the ISIS Party.

 

 

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[Dr Gloom 19743]

I'm gonna let Toonotl, Renton and Gloom continue their high fives in here and watch some telly

Good idea, might help you forget the BNP comparison.

 

Renton, toonotl - don't leave me hanging!

[Renton 17629]

I'm going to Iceland where it's safe away from the unlimited power of the ISIS Party.

 

 

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As long as you remember not to blaspheme.

[toonotl 2406]

As long as you remember not to blaspheme.

Always do. I hate freedom.

[Happy Face 29]

Think toonotl and myself are saying ISIS motives are primarily religious, not political HF. But just in case it escapes you, with this branch of Islam both are the same. Which is why they can't be reasoned with, and why we have a fundamental clash of culture here. Honestly, what's the point in this argument any more? You're clearly a clever bloke who can't see the nose in front of his face. Go to Syria and let them remove it for you.

 

I agree it's run it's course for the nth time.  I never started it though, it all started with you claiming "the left defend the misogynistic tendencies of Islam".

 

If you do it again I'll pick you up for it again and we'll do the whole debate again, because it just wasn't true.

[Renton 17629]

However this started (and I admit I was a bit naughty being deliberately provocative), it's not been resolved. Imo you're clearly in the wrong but seem to have an inability of admit it. There's no shame in admitting you've disappeared up your own arse by overplaying devil's advocate though HF. Well, not much anyway.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Renton

[Rayvin 4949]

 

As someone who can see both sides, I despair at this conversation.

[toonotl 2406]

You can't see both sides. I can. [emoji6]

[Park Life 70]

A huge number or Isis are fighting for money and to save their own lives once they come into contact with ISIS in the field and swapped sides. It's one of the primary reasons ISIS is burning through cash and pick up arms and ammo from other groups. ISIS spent so long fighting other Jihadi groups that Assad actually left them alone. Being a 'believer' cut no ice. Hence the Pentagon's failed attempts at distinguishing who was who for 3 years....

 

When unemployed kids from Tunisia or prisoners let out of Gulf states prisons to fight in Syria money is given to their families...When Chechens and others from the Caucases arrive in zone most have hardly read a page of the Koran (they are there to fight Russia and one day will go back and fight Russia) and they are given special classes by Imams and others before they go into the field...It's a kind of brainwashing the type the Viet Kong used to give farmers but with a religious bent...

 

A small platoon of ISIS will have one religious advisor, two or three battle hardened soldiers from Bosnia and Libya etc and the rest will be green recruits who pretty quickly realize they have made a big mistake...

 

ISIS prefer to recruit non religious people. They are easier to control and brainwash because they have no grounding in ISLAM.

 

Russia is aware that the Caucases and other tribal areas will be the new front line and this time the CIA will be helping ISIS but covertly. The want to break ISIS in Syria once and for all and no leakage of fighters back to Russian zones of influence.

 

 

The original ISIS cadres are a mix of battle hardened from Libya and Iraq (they did a runner from Iraq when they started losing and arrived in Syria with satchels full of dollars flown in from Saudi)...

 

The Iranian militias who are world class street fighters kicked Isis out of dozens of villages in Syria and they started getting cane on the other side from the Kurds and European special forces..(SAS have been in Syria for at least 2 years maybe more along with French Foreign Legion and others).

 

Once the Russian airstrikes started in earnest they lost huge numbers who just ran off into the night...ISIS are going to lose in Syria and Iraq.

 

 

http://www.vice.com/read/isis-mind-control-young-british-muslims-857

 

 

 

If we can shore up Libya the world will be much healthier in a year or two.

Edited November 4, 2016 by Park Life

[Happy Face 29]

Trump has an HF-like understanding of the 'burden of proof'.

 

 

If your position is that fundamentalism is the greatest motivation for western terrorism and my position is that political motivation is greater and the global terrirism index says explicitly

 

"Islamic fundamentalism was not the major motivation for lone wolf terrorist attacks in 2014."

 

And quantify the extent to which political motivation is greater between 2006 and 2014 as follows:

 

"Sixty-seven per cent of deaths by lone wolf terrorism in the West are political in motivation"

 

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Global-Terrorism-Index-2015.pdf

 

Then how can you say I am failing on burden of proof rather than you?

 

I think perhaps you and Renton are Trump here.

[Rayvin 4949]

I think this is an interesting new slant on the terrorism issue:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/15/alt-right-manosphere-mainstream-politics-breitbart

 

The radicalisation of young, white men. We've had some examples of this over time (Breivik, Rodgers, now Mair (granted he wasn't young), etc). There's no religious factor there, so why are these guys doing what they're doing? Breivik makes clear he was acting in defence of Europe against a Muslim invasion - which sounds like the kind of thing an Islamic terrorist would say, just turned on its head.

Edited November 29, 2016 by Rayvin

[toonotl 2406]

 

If your position is that fundamentalism is the greatest motivation for western terrorism and my position is that political motivation is greater and the global terrirism index says explicitly

 

"Islamic fundamentalism was not the major motivation for lone wolf terrorist attacks in 2014."

 

And quantify the extent to which political motivation is greater between 2006 and 2014 as follows:

 

"Sixty-seven per cent of deaths by lone wolf terrorism in the West are political in motivation"

 

http://economicsandpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Global-Terrorism-Index-2015.pdf

 

Then how can you say I am failing on burden of proof rather than you?

 

I think perhaps you and Renton are Trump here.

 

 

 

 

Yawn.

 

This isn't worth addressing. The terrorists have stated their motivations.

 

Any discussion with you goes in circles. It's a waste of time. You're embarrassing yourself. 

 

 

"But, why not Iceland?"

[Happy Face 29]

 

Yawn.

 

This isn't worth addressing. The terrorists have stated their motivations.

 

Any discussion with you goes in circles. It's a waste of time. You're embarrassing yourself. 

 

 

"But, why not Iceland?"

 

 

Like Trump, it's best for you not to be burdened by research and evidence.  Just go with your gut instinct and claims that reinforce you prejudiced world view.