Stone Cold Charlie Austin

[Alex 30257]

they'd take their chances but a team set up with those two up front now would struggle. you'd have to play 4-4-2 with proper wingers. doesn't really exist in the modern game of one striker, inverted wingers and two defensive midfielders

We didn't play with two wingers all the time when they played. We often played with one (Ginola) and either Asprilla or (more usually) Beardsley was preferred to Keith Gillespie. When Gillespie did come off the bench he often replaced Ginola.

[Park Life 70]

A schoolboyista error.

Correcticus.

[Holden McGroin 4821]

We didn't play with two wingers all the time when they played. We often played with one (Ginola) and either Asprilla or (more usually) Beardsley was preferred to Keith Gillespie. When Gillespie did come off the bench he often replaced Ginola.

 

That might have just been to shoe-horn Keegans preferred players into the team though. Beardsley was wasted on the wing. Same with Asprilla.

[Alex 30257]

they weren't exactly blistering either.

 

but even back then i remember a few commentators speculating as to whether they were too similar to work in a pair. they did work, but i'm not sure they would today.

Ferdinand had loads of pace, man. And Shearer had enough so that defenders couldn't get back at him if they were the wrong side of him. To suggest they were immobile when they played together for us is fucking ridiculous.

[Holden McGroin 4821]

Ferdinand had loads of pace, man. And Shearer had enough so that defenders couldn't get back at him if they were the wrong side of him. To suggest they were immobile when they played together for us is fucking ridiculous.

 

Ferdinand was lightening and surprisingly wasnt even 6 foot. In fact Shearer was under 6ft as well- I thnk (although Wikipedia have him at 6ft on the dot). Im just nit picking with that point though. Both were strong as an ox and had great aerial ability.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Holden McGroin

[Alex 30257]

 

That might have just been to shoe-horn Keegans preferred players into the team though. Beardsley was wasted on the wing. Same with Asprilla.

I agree to an extent but he didn't play as an out and out winger. In any case it refutes the claim you need to be set up that way for those strikers to be effective because we often weren't. Classic case in point the 5-0 v Man Utd.

[Kid Dynamite 5890]

Multiple reports today that we are making a £13.25mil offer for him imminently. unlikely QPR will immediately accept it but I'd imagine the deal will eventually happen given Austin wants out and has turned down other clubs already

[Holden McGroin 4821]

I agree to an extent but he didn't play as an out and out winger. In any case it refutes the claim you need to be set up that way for those strikers to be effective because we often weren't. Classic case in point the 5-0 v Man Utd.

 

I dont think you can use one game to point out the benefits of a formation.

 

Anyway the game has changed so much, especially since the advent of attacking midfielders that can both pack the midfield yet notch 10-15 goals per position. The teams like us that play that formation and don't have the goal input from those positions tend to struggle.

 

Edit: Plus our defence is shite.

Edited July 28, 2015 by Holden McGroin

[The Fish 8950]

Multiple reports today that we are making a £13.25mil offer for him imminently. unlikely QPR will immediately accept it but I'd imagine the deal will eventually happen given Austin wants out and has turned down other clubs already

He has?

[Alex 30257]

 

I dont think you can use one game to point out the benefits of a formation.

 

Anyway the game has changed so much, especially since the advent of attacking midfielders that can both pack the midfield yet notch 10-15 goals per position. The teams like us that play that formation and don't have the goal input from those positions tend to struggle.

 

Edit: Plus our defence is shite.

It was an example to illustrate the point. I wasn't basing it purely on that game. We came 2nd that year and used a variety of formations which included Shearer and Ferdinand (even 3-5-2 and 4-3-3) so that backs up my point too. No one is suggesting the game hasn't changed, it's a case of my challenging the notions that Shearer and Ferdinand were immobile, that they couldn't be effective together now and that you'd need to play with wingers for them to be effective when, as I've pointed out, that wasn't even the case back then.

[Holden McGroin 4821]

It was an example to illustrate the point. I wasn't basing it purely on that game. We came 2nd that year and used a variety of formations which included Shearer and Ferdinand (even 3-5-2 and 4-3-3) so that backs up my point too. No one is suggesting the game hasn't changed, it's a case of my challenging the notions that Shearer and Ferdinand were immobile, that they couldn't be effective together now and that you'd need to play with wingers for them to be effective when, as I've pointed out, that wasn't even the case back then.

 

Yeah, I went off on a separate point. I wasnt really arguing the point as they were a good partnership and both mobile. I do think they benefited from wingers getting the ball in the box from wide though.

[Dr Gloom 19745]

Ferdinand had loads of pace, man. And Shearer had enough so that defenders couldn't get back at him if they were the wrong side of him. To suggest they were immobile when they played together for us is fucking ridiculous.

 

really? i don't remember ferdinand being blistering. they were both target men, both number 9s. both absolutely quality players and neither were completely immobile but i wouldn't say either were the type of player that played on the defender's shoulder either - and i reckon you usually want at least one of those type if you're going to go two up front these days, or one with a few more tricks on the ball.

 

though tbf shearer did play a lot more on the defender's shoulder in his blackburn days and in that first season for us alongside ferdinand before he knackered his ankle.

 

playing them together did work back in the 90s but i remember plenty of pundits questioning whether it would at the time. and despite the undisputed quality of both players, i doubt you'd play two such similar players in the game today (when certain teams line up without a single number 9 let alone two of them).

[Dr Gloom 19745]

 

Ferdinand was lightening and surprisingly wasnt even 6 foot. In fact Shearer was under 6ft as well- I thnk (although Wikipedia have him at 6ft on the dot). Im just nit picking with that point though. Both were strong as an ox and had great aerial ability.

 

ferdinand was the best in the air of any newcastle player i can remember. better than shearer even in that department.

[Tooj 17]

Gary Speed ftw.

[Dr Gloom 19745]

I agree to an extent but he didn't play as an out and out winger. In any case it refutes the claim you need to be set up that way for those strikers to be effective because we often weren't. Classic case in point the 5-0 v Man Utd.

 

what was the line up that game? i can't remember. got it on vhs but haven't watched it in years - was it shearer and ferdinand up front with ginola on one wing and pedro on the other?

[Dr Gloom 19745]

Gary Speed ftw.

 

not a bad shout. sir les's hang time was like michael jordon though

[The Fish 8950]

 

what was the line up that game? i can't remember. got it on vhs but haven't watched it in years - was it shearer and ferdinand up front with ginola on one wing and pedro on the other?

I remember it as Ginola getting chalk on his boots on one wing, but Beardsley was tucked well in.

[Alex 30257]

 

what was the line up that game? i can't remember. got it on vhs but haven't watched it in years - was it shearer and ferdinand up front with ginola on one wing and pedro on the other?

Think it was Pav, Barton, Beresford, Peacock, Albert, Beardsley, Lee, Batty, Ginola, Sir Les and Shearer.

[Alex 30257]

I remember it as Ginola getting chalk on his boots on one wing, but Beardsley was tucked well in.

Correctomundo

[Alex 30257]

 

really? i don't remember ferdinand being blistering. they were both target men, both number 9s. both absolutely quality players and neither were completely immobile but i wouldn't say either were the type of player that played on the defender's shoulder either - and i reckon you usually want at least one of those type if you're going to go two up front these days, or one with a few more tricks on the ball.

 

though tbf shearer did play a lot more on the defender's shoulder in his blackburn days and in that first season for us alongside ferdinand before he knackered his ankle.

 

playing them together did work back in the 90s but i remember plenty of pundits questioning whether it would at the time. and despite the undisputed quality of both players, i doubt you'd play two such similar players in the game today (when certain teams line up without a single number 9 let alone two of them).

Ferdinand's game was all about pace and power. And neither were immobile at by any stretch of the imagination at that time.

[trooper 940]

I still think an old fashioned attacking formation is the way forward (no pun intended) . A couple of wingers a centre forward, an inside left and an nside right. This could be a similar formation Keegan used with his "entertainers team" we may not have won every game but it was excellent to watch. We may leak a few goals but at least we' have a chance of out scoring them.

[Dr Gloom 19745]

bring back half backs, i say

[Dr Gloom 19745]

Ferdinand's game was all about pace and power. And neither were immobile at by any stretch of the imagination at that time.

 

i remember him more for being muscular, a class finisher and mint in the air but i'm sure you're right and he was a lot faster than i recall. shearer was very immobile in his later years for us, but not so much before he his ankle injury, which is probably why the two of them worked so well together that season. plus the fact they were both mint finishers, we had loads of creativity in the midfield and an ultra attack minded manager.

 

but i still doubt whether you would play two conventional number 9s like them together in the modern game. who was the last premier league team to play with two number 9s that both liked to take up similar positions? it's so conservative now - it's usually one up top on his own, if it's two then one of them is a more tricky or pacey player working the channels or playing off the number 9.

 

i don't know a lot about mitrovic other than what i've read and seen on youtube, but he doesn't look like the sort of player that is going to work alongside austin. not that it wouldn't be nice to have options up front!

[Alex 30257]

 

i remember him more for being muscular, a class finisher and mint in the air but i'm sure you're right and he was a lot faster than i recall. shearer was very immobile in his later years for us, but not so much before he his ankle injury, which is probably why the two of them worked so well together that season. plus the fact they were both mint finishers, we had loads of creativity in the midfield and an ultra attack minded manager.

 

but i still doubt whether you would play two conventional number 9s like them together in the modern game. who was the last premier league team to play with two number 9s that both liked to take up similar positions? it's so conservative now - it's usually one up top on his own, if it's two then one of them is a more tricky or pacey player working the channels or playing off the number 9.

 

i don't know a lot about mitrovic other than what i've read and seen on youtube, but he doesn't look like the sort of player that is going to work alongside austin. not that it wouldn't be nice to have options up front!

I think Ferdinand's finishing was what stopped him being world class, as opposed to a very good player. Shearer was a much better finisher.

[Dr Gloom 19745]

i think he was arguably world class when he played for qpr and us, and was pretty unfortunate to have shearer and sheringham to compete with at the time for engand, otherwise he'd have got a loads more caps. it was injuries at spurs that finished him.