David Kelly 1117 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Aren't they? " if they weren't struggling they wouldn't be around us. But Swansea have just won their last game to move above and just appointed a new manager so I wouldnt say they were throwing in the towel just yet. And Bournemouth have also strengthened and have been picking up results more regularly than us." If that doesn't say "Newcastle are fucked and those around us are getting out of it" I don't know what would. That says our position is desperate and currently more desperate than those above us. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 (edited) Maybe the difference you see between Swansea & Norwich's desperate situation and our own is bigger than I do? I see Swansea as being 1pt above us, selling key players to rivals and in terrible form and therefore in as much trouble as us. You see them as out of the relegation zone and therefore not in as much trouble What you see is opinion what I see is fact. If we don't get any more points between now and the end of the season we get relegated. If Swansea and Norwich don't they may well also be relegated but that would depend on Villa and the tramps. Edited January 21, 2016 by David Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 That says our position is desperate and currently more desperate than those above us. Nothing more. I don't see it as more desperate. because we're not 3 games from the end of the season and needing 7points. There's easily enough time to get to safety, we're only 6 points off 12th ffs, so describing our situation as desperate is, frankly, histrionics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30372 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Aren't they? No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I don't see it as more desperate. because we're not 3 games from the end of the season and needing 7points. There's easily enough time to get to safety, we're only 6 points off 12th ffs, so describing our situation as desperate is, frankly, histrionics.We're more than half way through the season and have only won 5 games and only scored in a few away games. That to me is pretty desperate. Is it impossible to get out of? Of course not. Is there enough time? Of course there is. However, is that time and the amount of games left getting less? Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30372 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I don't see it as more desperate. because we're not 3 games from the end of the season and needing 7points. There's easily enough time to get to safety, we're only 6 points off 12th ffs, so describing our situation as desperate is, frankly, histrionics. Nitpicking aside we're currently worse off than those sides, which is essentially all that was being said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 What you see is opinion what I see is fact. If we don't get any more points between now and the end of the season we get relegated. If Swansea and Norwich don't they may well also be relegated but that would depend on Villa and the tramps. Well yeah, of course if we get no more points we'll be relegated, but while that is factually accurate, it's hardly bloody likely, now is it? What's as likely, and some may even say more likely, is that we'll revert to the mean and get around 1/1.5 points per game and end up around 15th. Certainly given the strengthening of the squad. But honestly, that's not what happens on here, people see the current situation and expect it to remain the same. I genuinely believe that if Swansea hadn't won there'd be people entirely confident that we'd survive. Simply because we were 17th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Nitpicking aside we're currently worse off than those sides, which is essentially all that was being said. No I disagree, what's being said is "we're worse than those sides and will remain so". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30372 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 No I disagree Well, you would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19808 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 In truth, there are Villa plus 7 or so other clubs still in the shit. We're very much in it, particularly with our goal difference, which is one of the worst. So it is a desperate situation, which is why we're probably going to have to accept paying over the odds this window for players who many people might not rate. We will struggle to attract the cream of the crop when we're third bottom wih more than half the season gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Well, you would The thing is, I'm not being contrary for contrariness' sake. I honestly am confident we'll survive and have been for ages. I truly do believe that the general disposition of the people on this board is to the side of negativity and pessimism. Put it this way, I think when we failed to beat Stoke, I saw signs for optimism because we created plenty of chances, but faced a top class 'keeper in fine form. It seemed like others on here saw another 2pts dropped and nowt else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trophyshy 6433 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Why don't you go and give your hand a bloody good talking to Fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30372 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We need some sort of measure of how deep we are in the shit. A sort of (Fish-Approved) football version of the Bristol stool chart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Well yeah, of course if we get no more points we'll be relegated, but while that is factually accurate, it's hardly bloody likely, now is it? What's as likely, and some may even say more likely, is that we'll revert to the mean and get around 1/1.5 points per game and end up around 15th. Certainly given the strengthening of the squad. But honestly, that's not what happens on here, people see the current situation and expect it to remain the same. I genuinely believe that if Swansea hadn't won there'd be people entirely confident that we'd survive. Simply because we were 17th. No one has said that because the situation is poor and getting more desperate, that it won't change. The whole point was that action is needed to make that change happen. I think, at last , in your final sentence there you've hit upon something accurate. I did point out on Monday before the Swansea game that things would look a lot worse for us if Swansea won and that's exactly what happened. If we lose at the weekend and the mackems win we could go back down to 19th and things would look worse again. People get carried away when we drop down just as others got carried away when we moved up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 No I disagree, what's being said is "we're worse than those sides and will remain so".Well you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30372 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 The thing is, I'm not being contrary for contrariness' sake. I honestly am confident we'll survive and have been for ages. I truly do believe that the general disposition of the people on this board is to the side of negativity and pessimism. Put it this way, I think when we failed to beat Stoke, I saw signs for optimism because we created plenty of chances, but faced a top class 'keeper in fine form. It seemed like others on here saw another 2pts dropped and nowt else. I'm guessing 'exhausting' was hyperbole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30372 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Why don't you go and give your hand a bloody good talking to Fish? Or seeing to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19808 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 My brother is a bit like Fish. He's the only person I know who could start an argument with himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 No one has said that because the situation is poor and getting more desperate, that it won't change. The whole point was that action is needed to make that change happen. I think, at last , in your final sentence there you've hit upon something accurate. I did point out on Monday before the Swansea game that things would look a lot worse for us if Swansea won and that's exactly what happened. If we lose at the weekend and the mackems win we could go back down to 19th and things would look worse again. People get carried away when we drop down just as others got carried away when we moved up. And despite action being taken, many are still desperate. By the by, nobody on here got carried away when we moved up to 17th. On here, it was simply a stay of the inevitable execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 My brother is a bit like Fish. He's the only person I know who could start an argument with himself. Well maybe if you lot stopped being wrong, I'd stop biting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30372 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Apparently when we went up to 17th and DK and some others pointed out Swansea might win and put us back in the bottom 3 they were being hysterical, even though they were shown to be correct. Or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19808 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I don't think anyone has said we're certain to go down, Fish. You're the one that generally likes to make bold predictions about our survival chances. But it remains a realistic possibility the longer we stuck down there. I think even you got a bit worried at the back end of last season, despite confident earlier predictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 And despite action being taken, many are still desperate. By the by, nobody on here got carried away when we moved up to 17th. On here, it was simply a stay of the inevitable execution. The argument you have seemed to put forward recently was that bringing a striker in might halt Mitrovic's progress and as such could be a bad thing. My point of view is that while ideally I would like to see Mitrovic given more time, our position is not one where we can afford this. IMO we need more goals. This opinion is shared by Alex and others and seems to be shared by the club as they appear to be trying to sign a striker. If they don't (and they haven't yet) do that there is reason to be increasingly pessemistic about our chances of survial. Whilse no one was saying we were suddenly safe after the weekend, there was definitely a much increased level of optimism on here on Monday. A lot of people seemed to forget how quickly we could be back in the bottom 3. That happened straight away on Monday night and a lot of people got more pessemistic about the situation as soon as we dropped a place (not just on here, I had mates text me as soon as Swansea scored that we were back in the bottom 3). My position never changed. We had a good result at the weekend and it's a start but unless we continue the good start we're not any better off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 I don't think anyone has said we're certain to go down, Fish. You're the one that generally likes to make bold predictions about our survival chances. But it remains a realistic possibility the longer we stuck down there. I think even you got a bit worried at the back end of last season, despite confident earlier predictions. Course they won't, because it's safer to make vague statements like "we're in trouble" or "we're in a desperate situation" so when we survive or get out of it they don't look as stupid and when we go down they can glumly say "I told you so". It is a realistic possibility, as is survival. but if people were 50/50 wouldn't we see more people talking about survival than we do relegation? People are definitely more confident we're going down than staying up. Even though we're 3pts of 15th. Even though the pack from which 3 will be relegated are all struggling and only really Villa are properly adrift. Even despite all of this, nobody talks about how fucked the mackems are, how self-destructive Swansea look, how shockingly bad Norwich's defense look or how we're still suffering from a very difficult start to the league. fwiw, I did get worried, I think it was the last 2 games, when the situation looked desperate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19808 Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 a run of wins will go along way to improving the outlook on here. we've only managed back to back victories once all season so it's no surprise people are concerned really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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