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War is stupid, and people are stupid, and love means nothing in some strange quarters.

Hi Tommy...its widely rumoured you spend all the housekeeping on pinball mate....

He doesn’t nail anything for me...the old “religion causes war” bollocks....man’s lust for land, power and money causes war. Religion is used as a way of dividing the sides, but it doesn’t cause the w

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For all I very much agree with the "human nature" argument, the claws go a lot deeper than that. Religion may not ultimately cause war when you drill down into it, but it's definitely used to excuse it, time and time again, and that's not something that should be allowed to pass uncriticised.

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2 hours ago, PaddockLad said:

He doesn’t nail anything for me...the old “religion causes war” bollocks....man’s lust for land, power and money causes war. Religion is used as a way of dividing the sides, but it doesn’t cause the war. Cunts cause wars. A moral, facist cunts. 

In the Western world, in modern times, where religion is very much diluted maybe. But thats a blinkered view of history, where fuck loads of wars have been fought over religion 

 I mean....

 

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2 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Religion is a load of shite. There, I nailed it.

Thanks for the link. Never knew Sinatra was so thoughtful and articulate 

I suspect it was a pre-written response by Sinatra tbf. I don't suppose all of that just rolled off his tongue. Either way, it's hard to disagree with much of it 

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1 hour ago, Kid Dynamite said:

In the Western world, in modern times, where religion is very much diluted maybe. But thats a blinkered view of history, where fuck loads of wars have been fought over religion 

 I mean....

 

A575433D-B7CF-4015-831A-34269D11502D.png


What was the point of all these religious wars? The “English” Civil War was largely sectarian. What was the result of it? 

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I think it depends on how you view the people at the top. I think PL is right in his view because I don't believe, certainly throughout history and maybe even today, that there are any serious "true believers" at the top of religions. There are, however, a lot of tyrannical politicians who surround themselves with wealth and the trappings of power. These people will not have taken anyone to war for the sake of anything other than consolidation of their own power and importance.

 

I'm not sure any other argument makes sense really, I mean there is no justification in the Bible at least for some of the atrocities carried out in the name of Christianity. So why would the supposed leaders of said religion depart from the heart and spirit of what they believe if not for their own human weaknesses and greed.

 

In the end though, we've continued with the same power grabbing, resource hording and general fucking on even now, in a post religious age (in the West).

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I don't accept the West is post religious. The US certainly isn't and many countries are still intrinsically bound to religion and their evil twin monarchies all over Europe. 

 

There may be a reduced Sunday congregations in the UK but the link with religion through weddings, funerals and of course education is still central to the British way of life. 

 

And thats before you consider the adherence to non-Christian religions. 

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2 hours ago, NJS said:

I don't accept the West is post religious. The US certainly isn't and many countries are still intrinsically bound to religion and their evil twin monarchies all over Europe. 

 

There may be a reduced Sunday congregations in the UK but the link with religion through weddings, funerals and of course education is still central to the British way of life. 

 

And thats before you consider the adherence to non-Christian religions. 

 

Politically non religious then. The West doesn't fight religious wars anymore is all I meant. Nowadays we just need to brand people terrorists and we can apparently blow up civilians with impunity.

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8 hours ago, Monkeys Fist said:

Al Quaeda would like a quick word. 

 

Agreed. A tiny minority of literal terrorists. 
Their brothers in Islamic State were more typical though. The first thing they did once they got properly organised was to declare that large parts of Iraq & Syria were part of their own personal Caliphate. 

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4 hours ago, Rayvin said:

Hmm, I didn't view that as religious on our side in any sense. Revenge, war economy, domestic political factors but not defending the faith.

Doesn’t matter if you’re atheist, Christian, Jewish, whatever- if the “opponent” shouts “God is Great! “ before, during and after their acts, then you are fighting a religious war. 
 

 

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5 hours ago, Rayvin said:

Hmm, I didn't view that as religious on our side in any sense. Revenge, war economy, domestic political factors but not defending the faith.

 

George Bush junior literally called it a crusade. Anyone who thinks religion is dead in the west is bonkers. You would have a better chance of being elected in a position of political power as a convicted paedophole than as a declared atheist in the USA. Religion is toxic and pretending it isn't is part of the problem. 

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Ok, so the argument is the people that go to war, the ruling class, tend to do it for power/money? 
 

What about the boots on the ground? The millions of soldiers and civilians? Do you think religion doesn't play a part in that? There aren't millions of people on this planet who literally hate vast swathes of the population because of the religion they follow? 

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8 hours ago, Alex said:

They don’t usually start the wars 

The original quote was...

"Christ is revered as the Prince of Peace, but more blood has been shed in his name than any other figure in history"

 

People can play semantics all they want but the assertion that "religion doesn't cause wars" is demonstrably false 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

So if everyone was an atheist there’d be no wars? :cuppa:

 

 

 

No. War is caused by thr concept of difference or otherness. There will always be differences between nation states other than religion. Religion is a pretty strong source of difference though and furthermore religious texts can incite hatred and justification for war. 

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8 hours ago, Renton said:

 

No. War is caused by thr concept of difference or otherness. There will always be differences between nation states other than religion. Religion is a pretty strong source of difference though and furthermore religious texts can incite hatred and justification for war. 


Which is what I said originally...

 

KD is tight, it is semantics. But the point remains, people are cunts without religion. Blaming the majority of warfare on religion is a sweeping generalisation I just can’t get on with. The central tenets of all major religions on the planet  are peace, love and understanding.  Most of us know that’s fuckin bollocks. If you covet thy neighbour’s Ox you’ll take thy neighbour’s ox, murder him then move into his house and take all his land. Fuck all in the scriptures will stop that. There’s also tiny bits in the scriptures that are exploited by the aforementioned cunts to manipulate the easily lead, to take an entire herd, then the farm, murdering all the farm workers in the process. But you’ve still got to covet thy neighbours ox in the first place...

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I think the war/conflict blame game is the "minor" downside of religion for me as I accept the human nature angle  - it's the insidious anti-reason and nonsensical bollocks that pollutes people's brains that bothers me. 

 

And thats before the fuckers pass laws to enshrine said bollocks and affect rational people with their nonsense. 

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