Ayatollah Hermione 12736 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Let it go, Lynn. You're never going to meet him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30239 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 https://twitter.com/shonfaye/status/825728551450247173 https://twitter.com/daniel_barker/status/825374690566889477 that last tweet absolutely nails it. For far too many people religion is just a justification for being a bigot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3418 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 The order mentions September 11th 3 times in the opening paragraph which shows it up even more. Funnily enough [tweet] [/tweet] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30239 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Trump and Brexit happened because manipulative figures convinced ordinary people that their lives were worse than shit because of politicians.[/] I think Sturgeon and the result in Scotland shows the importance of a leader people feel they can trust. Cameron was ok coming up against the joke Labour had become and the likes of UKIP in a GE because of FPTP but he was never close to having 50% of the electorate thinking he was alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17610 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I wasn't politically conscious in the 80s. But while it might be your experience that we have it really good, it doesn't seem to be reflected in what many other people are thinking. I can only speak for myself in my view. I worked hard at school, went to Uni and then we were hit by a financial crisis about 3 weeks after I graduated. Suddenly there were no jobs. Then wage stagnation and low growth. Zero hours contracts. The rich getting richer. The middle class being eroded. The positives of globalisation being outweighed by the negatives. And of course austerity. That's been the last 10 years. Why in fuck would people not want to change that? I can't be the only person who thinks this sorry state of affairs is fucking shit? Also, the 80s was when Neoliberalism kicked off in earnest. I don't think we understood what was happening then. We do now. EDIT - wait there's more - unaffordable housing, having to pay fees for higher education, high rental prices, less general ignorance about the way the world works. I'll add more as I think of them... You're right that this is the opportunity that the likes of Farage and Trump have been waiting for, but not, in my view, because of the internet or anything like that. Trump seems to have a love hate relationship with the internet at best. I would argue it's because they've been able to capitalise on a lack of political will in the centre to do anything other than 'maintain', and that they've harnessed widespread rage. I'm not maligning them importance of a free press. I don't think I said anything of the sort. I malign the influence of a press that follows establishment and corporate interests as you well know. Would I rather have that over no press at all? Yes. I'd snap your hand off. Would I prefer an entirely factual service that doesn't seek to influence and coerce on the political level? Infinitely more so. Identity politics is about the use of labels to break people up into groups along lines they can't change. For instance to assume that all white people vote the same way, and all women, etc. Using labels to describe political terms is entirely different and I'm a little surprised that you think it's the same? Of your list, metropolitan elite (not a phrase I can recall using, although I use 'elites' a lot - to define politicians and business leaders normally) is the closest to an 'identity' in the sense of how people are politically grouped today. The rest are self-described political positions. We're actually 90% on the same page and I feel it would be patronising to talk to you about the 80s. I'd actually recommend 'Boys form the black stuff' to get a feel of it, also films like 'Letter to Brezhnev'. Even Auf wiedersehen 1, although the humour dilutes the desperation somewhat. Life was capital S "SHIT" for the working class in the 80s who weren't lucky enough to get a YTS in an SCS centre. Yeah, it's bad now and on a downward trajectory no doubt. But undoubtedly not as bad as then. However, the political landscape now is much more ominous than ever before, particularly in the US. I think it's down to two main factors. Firstly, the horrendous disparity in wealth we have now which is constantly thrown in our faces through the media. And secondly, because the internet have removed most people's ability to appraise reality. Gate open for the opportunists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19735 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 [tweet] [/tweet] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 We're actually 90% on the same page and I feel it would be patronising to talk to you about the 80s. I'd actually recommend 'Boys form the black stuff' to get a feel of it, also films like 'Letter to Brezhnev'. Even Auf wiedersehen 1, although the humour dilutes the desperation somewhat. Life was capital S "SHIT" for the working class in the 80s who weren't lucky enough to get a YTS in an SCS centre. Yeah, it's bad now and on a downward trajectory no doubt. But undoubtedly not as bad as then. However, the political landscape now is much more ominous than ever before, particularly in the US. I think it's down to two main factors. Firstly, the horrendous disparity in wealth we have now which is constantly thrown in our faces through the media. And secondly, because the internet have removed most people's ability to appraise reality. Gate open for the opportunists. To be absolutely fair, I can see it being a combination of those things, as you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Department of Homeland Security refusing to comply with congressional instructions to stand down on the immigrant policy. They're taking Trump's side. Will concede that this is a worry, depending on how it resolves. We don't want a power struggle between Trump and Congress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19735 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 He's going to be impeached before his term ends isn't he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19735 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) Department of Homeland Security refusing to comply with congressional instructions to stand down on the immigrant policy. They're taking Trump's side. Will concede that this is a worry, depending on how it resolves. We don't want a power struggle between Trump and Congress. they must be scared. social media accounts of people trying to enter the country have been checked. also read that they were being asked what they thought of Trump. thought policing. Edited January 30, 2017 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 they must be scared. social media accounts of people trying to enter the country have been checked. also read that they were being asked what they thought of Trump. thought policing.The NSA have everyone's social media records anyway so it's actually just intimidation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19735 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 This guy isn't remotely qualified to do this. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/28/lobbying-ban-trump-executive-order-isis-strategy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26168 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 We don't want a power struggle between Trump and Congress. Isn't that exactly what we want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19735 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Yeah but realistically he has absolutely no means of doing that. I expect it could amount to little more than surrendering the task to Russia. That said, if he allies with Putin they'd probably end that catastrophically... so maybe you're right. Don't worry, he's got it covered. Sounds full of substance “This is the plan to defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, in other words Isis,” the president said. “I think it’s going to be very successful. “That’s big stuff.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3418 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 [tweet] [/tweet] But but but religion is evil!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaddockLad 14527 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 PL, I disagree. Trump just hijacked the movement - the Alt-Right alone was in ascendancy far before Trump was on the scene. Farage you may have more of a case, but again, I think the sentiment was there anyway. UKIP got 4m votes at the last election. The referendum out vote got 17m. Why did those 13m people suddenly get so motivated about Europe? People's lives just -were- shit. In my view, it was to attack the establishment. That reason alone. Immigration, economics, all of this comes into it, but it was to send a message to a group of people (in the centre) who had become entirely removed from the considerations of normal people. Would Trump have won if he'd gone up against Sanders? Polling suggests no. Sanders was a better anti-establishment message. However, Hillary was chosen (off the back of shady practices by the DNC, it would seem). She was the establishment personified, and she lost. In fact, I genuinely believe that if Trump hadn't been revealed as someone who believes in grabbing people by the pussy, she would have lost the popular vote too. Trump was an utterly terrible candidate, but he wasn't establishment. I'm what you'd call a skilled manual worker, in one way or another so are most of my friends. They are variously self employed small businesses, one is a window fitter, one is a window cleaner, one lad sources and supplies branded mechandise to companies and sports clubs. One lad fits stairlifts, one worksw at an insurance company, one lad is a plasterer and another is a regional salesman for a corporate industrial vechicle supplier. None of us stayed at school beyond 16 and none of us have been near a university. We live in one of most affluent areas of Britain and we are all frankly thriving. All in well paid work, all with long term wives/partners, most with kids who are doing well at school. We have literally nothing to complain about re immigrants and immigration(the insurance lad was born in Bangladesh)All in all, we've got pretty charmed lives. I'm the only one who voted to stay in the EU. They've all gone with their feelings rather than looking at the facts. They've gone from being typically A-political to being in favour of a pretty hard brexit. Theyve all been completely manipulated, which is what Farage set out to do to people like us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimaad22 3418 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I think Renton made a good point about the effect of media and especially social media. Hype over facts with you 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19735 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Well judged leader in the guardian https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/29/the-guardian-view-on-donald-trumps-anti-muslim-orders-not-in-our-name?CMP=fb_gu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 I'm what you'd call a skilled manual worker, in one way or another so are most of my friends. They are variously self employed small businesses, one is a window fitter, one is a window cleaner, one lad sources and supplies branded mechandise to companies and sports clubs. One lad fits stairlifts, one worksw at an insurance company, one lad is a plasterer and another is a regional salesman for a corporate industrial vechicle supplier. None of us stayed at school beyond 16 and none of us have been near a university. We live in one of most affluent areas of Britain and we are all frankly thriving. All in well paid work, all with long term wives/partners, most with kids who are doing well at school. We have literally nothing to complain about re immigrants and immigration(the insurance lad was born in Bangladesh)All in all, we've got pretty charmed lives. I'm the only one who voted to stay in the EU. They've all gone with their feelings rather than looking at the facts. They've gone from being typically A-political to being in favour of a pretty hard brexit. Theyve all been completely manipulated, which is what Farage set out to do to people like us. Which is a fair enough explanation for people in your situation, but would it mean the same outcome for people whose lives actually are shit? Also, which way do you friends vote at GEs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Apparently the petition to 'Save the Queen' from Trump has now exceeded 1m signatures. Which I don't understand at all actually. Why aren't we petitioning to stop him coming altogether? And also, doesn't the Queen regularly meet despots from around the world? Why would Trump be different? Although if they don't come over here for official state visits for the same reasons then fair enough. I also note that Starbucks has pledged to hire 10,000 refugees. Which it will do because they're cheap, will accept minimum wage, and because it looks good. Not because they care. The virtue signalling is going to be painful to watch here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonatine 9940 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.q7q1z54he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted January 30, 2017 Author Share Posted January 30, 2017 Don't worry, he's got it covered. Sounds full of substance “This is the plan to defeat the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, in other words Isis,” the president said. “I think it’s going to be very successful. “That’s big stuff.” Plan to defeat ISIS: ensure that people fleeing ISIS rather than join and support are forced to remain in ISIS strongholds, join and support them. Trump Logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26168 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Apparently the petition to 'Save the Queen' from Trump has now exceeded 1m signatures. Which I don't understand at all actually. Why aren't we petitioning to stop him coming altogether? And also, doesn't the Queen regularly meet despots from around the world? Why would Trump be different? Although if they don't come over here for official state visits for the same reasons then fair enough. I also note that Starbucks has pledged to hire 10,000 refugees. Which it will do because they're cheap, will accept minimum wage, and because it looks good. Not because they care. The virtue signalling is going to be painful to watch here. How do you get through life finding fault with everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30239 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 How do you get through life finding fault with everything? I'm just a skeptic, that's all there is to it really. But honestly, it's not like Starbucks will be wringing their hands about the plight of refugees. They'll be thinking "this is a big deal, has caught a lot of international attention... how can we exploit it to boost profits". That'll be all there is to it. https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.q7q1z54he This is perhaps the most worrying thing I've read so far on the whole issue. I'll concede that I'm starting to come around to Gloom's line of thought here - things like this happening in the background are a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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