NJS 3960 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 The centrist dems are dropping like flies - probable aim is for Biden to stitch up Sanders by offering the VP to Warren for her delegates. I'd be very surprised if Biden beats Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim 8868 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 27 minutes ago, NJS said: The centrist dems are dropping like flies - probable aim is for Biden to stitch up Sanders by offering the VP to Warren for her delegates. I'd be very surprised if Biden beats Trump. Boden has to be Trump’s dream candidate. With other candidates there are too many uncertainties how to attack them best while with Biden they can just stick to their conspiracy theories and repeat stories about how the successfully fought against the impeachment scam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 I'm sure there are many, many dems (especially the top brass) who'd rather lose with Biden than win with Sanders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, NJS said: I'm sure there are many, many dems (especially the top brass) who'd rather lose with Biden than win with Sanders. It's the same shit the world over. The centrists prefer rampant racism and regressive values to the prospect of paying higher tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 13959 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 #NotAllCentrists (safety ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26168 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 30 minutes ago, Rayvin said: It's the same shit the world over. The centrists prefer rampant racism and regressive values to the prospect of paying higher tax. Now you know that’s not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26168 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 49 minutes ago, NJS said: I'm sure there are many, many dems (especially the top brass) who'd rather lose with Biden than win with Sanders. See I think he’s going to face the same problem as Corbyn. Universal healthcare is a sensible proposal with growing popular support. Free university tuition has its merits but cancelling all student debt is what tips the whole thing over the top to batshit crazy in the eyes of many of the population. He needs to streamline his platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 I was referring to the powers that be within centrist politics rather than voters tbf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, ewerk said: See I think he’s going to face the same problem as Corbyn. Universal healthcare is a sensible proposal with growing popular support. Free university tuition has its merits but cancelling all student debt is what tips the whole thing over the top to batshit crazy in the eyes of many of the population. He needs to streamline his platform. I tend to agree but I'd like to think some things can be done. What neoliberalism has done throughout the West is to convince people - especially older ones - that absolutely nowt's possible apart from tinkering. The rich fucking love that and it's its greatest "success" - building on Thatcher killing empathy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26168 Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 People are afraid of change. You need to provide them with proof of concept. Corbyn should have started with the railways and then looked to extend the programme of nationalisation. Bernie could have started with UHC then he (or someone else) could have built on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 I think the problem might be that we're running out of time though. Late stage capitalism is destroying society and it's destroying the world. We don't really have the time to softly softly our way to global correction. Looks like Biden is going to be the lightning rod for the dropout centrists. Hopefully Bloomberg will stay in the game long enough to split that vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted March 3, 2020 Share Posted March 3, 2020 I think Warren needs to drop out (if she gets hammered today) to give Sanders more chance of having the most delegates which is when it'll get interesting if they try and fuck him over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 It looks to me as though Biden will win this now. As much as people can say that Warren is only harming Bernie by staying in (undeniably true), the same point could be made about Bloomberg. At least he's winning fairly. I hope he has something special up his sleeve to beat Trump because if he comes out like Clinton did he's going to be smashed like she was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 13959 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 At least all that money wasn't totally wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) Surely Bloomberg will drop out now. I'm not sure that the Democratic party will survive this shit in the long run though. There's just no compatibility between their left wing voters and their centre right wing voters. Why they should all be in the same party, I don't know. Why anyone expects the left to continue to tolerate failed centrist economic policies, I don't know. The left will never win anything, but i think its patience for propping up the centre may have come to an end across the board. Labour might get away with it because in fairness, even Starmer is pretty left wing. The democrat moderates aren't Starmers though. They're more like Johnson. Edited March 4, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Biden has nothing to offer beyond not being Trump. Even if Trump didn't have the corrupt son thing to attack him with I can't see anything to enthuse people to get out and vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Yep. Even Hilary, at least, had "I'm a woman, it's my turn". It's not a strong message at all, but it probably energised a few brainless people. Biden has "I used to work for a black man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26168 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Surely Bloomberg will drop out now. I'm not sure that the Democratic party will survive this shit in the long run though. There's just no compatibility between their left wing voters and their centre right wing voters. Why they should all be in the same party, I don't know. Why anyone expects the left to continue to tolerate failed centrist economic policies, I don't know. The left will never win anything, but i think its patience for propping up the centre may have come to an end across the board. Labour might get away with it because in fairness, even Starmer is pretty left wing. The democrat moderates aren't Starmers though. They're more like Johnson. So you think that ceding both the right and the centre to the opposition will improve the left's electoral chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) No, I think the left will never win anything. As I said in the post you quoted... So it's not so much a strategy as a determination to die on our feet. I have no optimism whatsoever about the left. It's just what I think will happen, not an insight into wider strategy. There is no strategy on the left. It's all wishful thinking, positivity and self delusion. Edited March 4, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26168 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 The election result in Ireland doesn't show that there's room for the left to win? The fact that the boomers will all be dead in 20 years doesn't give cause for optimism? I think you're being a little bit overly downbeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3960 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 9 minutes ago, Rayvin said: No, I think the left will never win anything. As I said in the post you quoted... So it's not so much a strategy as a determination to die on our feet. I have no optimism whatsoever about the left. It's just what I think will happen, not an insight into wider strategy. There is no strategy on the left. It's all wishful thinking, positivity and self delusion. As Ewerk says, the demographics suggest youth everywhere embracing the left - only concern is being fucked over for a Biden will disengage them for a while. Starmer or whoever will have to try and ensure the same for the Corbyn cultists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, ewerk said: The election result in Ireland doesn't show that there's room for the left to win? The fact that the boomers will all be dead in 20 years doesn't give cause for optimism? I think you're being a little bit overly downbeat. It's nice that Ireland has a population of intelligent people who can make informed decisions. And the boomers will die eventually but they will still stitch us up man. There is no way through the smears, lies, untruths and fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, NJS said: As Ewerk says, the demographics suggest youth everywhere embracing the left - only concern is being fucked over for a Biden will disengage them for a while. Starmer or whoever will have to try and ensure the same for the Corbyn cultists. I'm not even that young anymore and I'm disengaging as a result of people like Biden. In 20 years time we will have a world awash with the problems caused by climate change and an electorate that is broken and furious that this shit is what was left behind by their parents. But as much as you might think those voters will vote left, they won't. The right will win as it points to closing borders to stop climate migrants, isolation and protectionism. The left will suddenly be the thing we dont have time for, we'll need immediate, police state style solutions. Added to this, Rupert Murdoch's preserved head will still be running 50% of the world's media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) I'm going to add that the left will never capitalise because it needs a global movement and is incapable of creating one. It is intellectually bankrupt with no ideas or vision around which to unify people other than fear of climate change. It has filled it's ranks with the super woke who achieve utterly fuck all aside from immediately switching off the working classes, and when it finally does put forward people like Corbyn and Sanders who actually stand on platforms of truth with policies that can make a difference, it fails to credibly defend them from the obvious as fuck targeting and sustained attacks they come under. The left is a disorganised, useless collective of well-meaning hand wringers who lack the strategic vision to mount a serious challenge, and the fire and fury to push it forward even if they did manage to create one. I give Sanders a pass on this actually because i think he has both in spades - his problem is he's trying to reform a country that is beyond the pale in the stupidity stakes. The left will never beat the right because the left are made up of pleasant ordinary people with a social conscience who think that if they're just nice enough to everyone and tell the truth, they'll change people's minds. Meanwhile the right are spending billions changing the definition of the word 'truth', hiding facts through newsfeed algorithms, lying shamelessly, and perverting legal and electoral processes. How are the left ever going to beat that? We haven't even gotten started on deep faking yet, but you just know that it'll be a generation defining political fuckfest when that comes into play. Edited March 4, 2020 by Rayvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26168 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 It's difficult to berate the left for not being united while simultaneously dismissing anyone on the left who doesn't share your world view but you've managed to do it. Well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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