Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, ewerk said: Ah, the benefits of the self confidence that moral purity brings. It's not moral purity. I'm not claiming any moral highground. I just don't give a fuck anymore. Trump, Bloomberg, Biden, I don't see the fucking difference. All of them well to the right of the Tories. Rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Dr Gloom said: clear conscious, but you lose your right to complain about the result if you don't vote By virtue of that, none of us can complain about Trump having been elected in the first place. I'll complain if I want to, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: sanders, like corbyn, is a "with me or against me" no compromises type who will lose the election. biden is cut from the same cloth as Hilary but he will do better in the rust belt. he will also do better in florida than bernie would. it's a crucial state if the dems are going to do well and bernie ostracised half the state with his bizarre pro-castro views. again, like corbyn, he is completely unbending in support for dodgy people who are electorally toxic. biden's amazing night underlines the importance of coalition-building. his is a broad tent and includes blacks, surburban women etc tec. biden can win - the centrists are coming - coalitions win elections. His broad tent is older voters. That's a common theme going right through it irrespective of other demographics. He's a favourite of boomers with some degree of liberal conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19736 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: By virtue of that, none of us can complain about Trump having been elected in the first place. I'll complain if I want to, thanks i was talking about the bernie voters who decide not to vote democrat, not you personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26174 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: It's not moral purity. I'm not claiming any moral highground. I just don't give a fuck anymore. Trump, Bloomberg, Biden, I don't see the fucking difference. All of them well to the right of the Tories. Rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. Again, it's your assertion that anyone other than your ideal candidate is the devil incarnate. Biden wants to remove capital punishment, reduce mandatory minimum sentences, abolish private jails, introduce a $15 minimum wage, give two free years of college tuition, increase teacher pay, restrict electoral campaign finance, reduce carbon emissions, protect the environment from oil drilling, enhance gun control, protect 'Dreamers', increase capital gains tax and increase tax on the wealthiest. But aye, apart from that him and Trump are pretty much the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, ewerk said: Again, it's your assertion that anyone other than your ideal candidate is the devil incarnate. Biden wants to remove capital punishment, reduce mandatory minimum sentences, abolish private jails, introduce a $15 minimum wage, give two free years of college tuition, increase teacher pay, restrict electoral campaign finance, reduce carbon emissions, protect the environment from oil drilling, enhance gun control, protect 'Dreamers', increase capital gains tax and increase tax on the wealthiest. But aye, apart from that him and Trump are pretty much the same. Fair enough if he manages all of it, I guess. I'll hold my hands up if he does. Will you lot hold your hands up if Trump destroys him? I already know, don't bother answering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26174 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 'We either improve people's lives a lot or not at all'. It's a strange way to live your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: i was talking about the bernie voters who decide not to vote democrat, not you personally I mean the parallels with my stance are really clear though, so again, I was speaking in that sense. Nevermind anyway, it's all a moot point. If Sanders throws his weight behind Biden when the latter wins, in the same way he did for Clinton, then maybe enough people can be called out for Trump to be defeated. We'll see I suppose, but it looks like game over now for Sanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, ewerk said: 'We either improve people's lives a lot or not at all'. It's a strange way to live your life. Ok? I'm good without your approval ewerk I mean, I'll survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19736 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, ewerk said: 'We either improve people's lives a lot or not at all'. It's a strange way to live your life. some on the left would rather be a debating club - principled in opposition, while the world burns - instead of compromising, winning power and changing lives for the better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26174 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Ok? I'm good without your approval ewerk I mean, I'll survive. Of course you are, I'm not morally pure enough for your liking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: some on the left would rather be a debating club - principled in opposition, while the world burns - instead of compromising, winning power and changing lives for the better 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19736 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Rayvin said: how else do you describe the sanders voters who can't bring themselves to vote biden? or, for that matter, the momentum type who rewrites history, rejecting all the accomplishments made by labour's most successful leader of the last 50 years? Edited March 4, 2020 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 22 minutes ago, Dr Gloom said: how else do you describe the sanders voters who can't bring themselves to vote biden? or, for that matter, the momentum type who rewrites history, rejecting all the accomplishments made by labour's most successful leader of the last 50 years? I'm not doing this mate, I'm surprised I've been drawn into this as much as I have. I'm not denigrating Blair or Obama or anyone. But they're not the men we need right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38559 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Rayvin said: I'm not doing this mate, I'm surprised I've been drawn into this as much as I have. I'm not denigrating Blair or Obama or anyone. But they're not the men we need right now. I’d give my left nut to have either one back in charge right now, tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said: I’d give my left nut to have either one back in charge right now, tbh. Me too just about. In charge, that is. Leading the parties trying to get back into power - no. They'd lose. EDIT - which is a moot point really because we're losing no matter what. So I'm gonna stick to voting for this that makes logical sense, until such a time as I believe anyone can actually win. In the UK, it means Green. Edited March 4, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13808 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Jesus Christ, that’s weapons grade stupidity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Tom said: Jesus Christ, that’s weapons grade stupidity. Ah, back to being stupid again. It's been a while. You're probably right tbh. But no contribution you have ever made on this forum has made me reconsider my position on anything. I've changed my mind plenty on here in the face of evidence, but I'm yet to see you go toe to toe with me on anything. So you can stick to sniping pointlessly but tbh mate, I'm just gonna ignore it from here on out unless it comes with an argument. Edited March 4, 2020 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13808 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 “Toe to toe” alreet Andrew Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19736 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Rayvin said: Me too just about. In charge, that is. Leading the parties trying to get back into power - no. They'd lose. EDIT - which is a moot point really because we're losing no matter what. So I'm gonna stick to voting for this that makes logical sense, until such a time as I believe anyone can actually win. In the UK, it means Green. Blair would have destroyed Johnson at the last election. That isn’t up for debate. Biden has a genuine chance against Trump. He is loved by the African Americans - he’s Obama’s brother. And he has captured the crucial Hispanic vote in Florida that Sanders inexplicably pissed away. Sanders is too divisive to govern. Warren has been the big disappointment for me but then I guess the yanks aren’t ready to elect a woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Dr Gloom said: Blair would have destroyed Johnson at the last election. That isn’t up for debate. Biden has a genuine chance against Trump. He is loved by the African Americans - he’s Obama’s brother. And he has captured the crucial Hispanic vote in Florida that Sanders inexplicably pissed away. Sanders is too divisive to govern. Warren has been the big disappointment for me but then I guess the yanks aren’t ready to elect a woman. It is up for debate ffs. What would Blair's position on Brexit have been then, that would have won over the Leave voters? Jesus Christ man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13808 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 In fairness to Blair he said it would be catastrophic for Labour to go into an election before Brexit was resolved and he was right. He’d walkover this current lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17621 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Rayvin said: Trump, Bloomberg, Biden, I don't see the fucking difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 I am indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26174 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 I have quite literally just spelt it out for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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