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On 28/08/2020 at 23:53, Gemmill said:

Trump is definitely the underdog. He's nowhere near where he would want to be at this stage in the race. But voter suppression, the Russia effect, and post-election skullduggery could still see him get another 4 years.

 

If he does, it's over for America. The damage that bloke will do by 2025 is unimaginable. 


No doubt you’ll have seen Jordan Klepper’s interviews with Trump rally goers. These are literally the most stupid people on this planet, the people who swallow Trump’s bullshit by the bucketload and crawl over broken glass to vote for him. They are immune to facts and reality, their “opinion” is all that matters to them, and it’s usually pig shit ignorant and bigoted nonsense.
 

If Trump wins we’ll be in the end times for America like you say, and possibly western civilisation as we know it. A man more obviously corrupt, narcissistic, nepotistic, mendacious and in the pocket of Russia is hard to imagine....and he will do literally anything to stay out of jail, where he belongs. His base are oblivious to it, probably because they can’t distinguish real life from reality TV, but the RNC have no such excuse and deserve political oblivion, which I hope they get.

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13 minutes ago, Kitman said:


No doubt you’ll have seen Jordan Klepper’s interviews with Trump rally goers. These are literally the most stupid people on this planet, the people who swallow Trump’s bullshit by the bucketload and crawl over broken glass to vote for him. They are immune to facts and reality, their “opinion” is all that matters to them, and it’s usually pig shit ignorant and bigoted nonsense.
 

If Trump wins we’ll be in the end times for America like you say, and possibly western civilisation as we know it. A man more obviously corrupt, narcissistic, nepotistic, mendacious and in the pocket of Russia is hard to imagine....and he will do literally anything to stay out of jail, where he belongs. His base are oblivious to it, probably because they can’t distinguish real life from reality TV, but the RNC have no such excuse and deserve political oblivion, which I hope they get.

 

I agree entirely and just struggle to understand how its come to this. This country too  we're on the same song page, just not singing as loudly. How on Earth have the Western Anglophone nations allowed this to happen? It's beyond belief. Of course, neither the UK or USA are true democracies, the majority never voted for this shit. And the vast majority will suffer anyway. 

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2 hours ago, Renton said:

 

I agree entirely and just struggle to understand how its come to this. This country too  we're on the same song page, just not singing as loudly. How on Earth have the Western Anglophone nations allowed this to happen? It's beyond belief. Of course, neither the UK or USA are true democracies, the majority never voted for this shit. And the vast majority will suffer anyway. 


I think no-one foresaw the replacement of the press by social media as many people’s main or only source of news. Since there is virtually no moderation of content, it’s a place where bullshit flourishes, and serves to reinforce prejudices, bigotry and false narratives. This means politicians can spout blatant lies and nonsense without fear of contradiction or consequences....any attempt to challenge or fact check is met with the “fake news” mantra and they refuse to be held to account.

 

I’m not saying much of the press is anything but self interested scumbaggery but in the past there was at least an attempt in the broadsheets especially at factual and impartial reporting. That has now seems to have been overtaken by the constant diet of lies, smears and conspiracy theories that the gullible and stupid swallow as fact on social media.
 

its no accident that enemies of democracy like Russia and China put so much effort into social media engineering. Its accelerated the descent of politics in the US and probably UK too into the sewer and allow the likes of Trump and Johnson to lie and lie again without fear of the consequences. Trump is different class though and I’ve no doubt he would rather burn America down than relinquish power and face justice for his crimes.

 

Somewhere in the future I think the social media companies will have to take responsibility for the accuracy and impact of their content through regulation. Also not be allowed to rip off mainstream press content without paying for it. It’ll probably never happen in Murica though.

 

Not sure what can be done about it ttt. Perhaps people below a certain IQ level should be prevented from accessing the internet altogether.

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9 hours ago, Renton said:

 

I agree entirely and just struggle to understand how its come to this. This country too  we're on the same song page, just not singing as loudly. How on Earth have the Western Anglophone nations allowed this to happen? It's beyond belief. Of course, neither the UK or USA are true democracies, the majority never voted for this shit. And the vast majority will suffer anyway. 

 

I think if Trump wins we can expect a doubling down of his approach in this country. Not necessarily the incitement to violence, but the continued ripping up of norms and encouragement of increasingly loopy ideas. 

 

As an example, has anyone seen any Tory MPs speak out about the insane Trafalgar Square protests? No, because these are their people and they don't want to alienate them. That's not a million miles removed from the GOP's silence on Trump nutters taking to the streets. 

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7 hours ago, Kitman said:


I think no-one foresaw the replacement of the press by social media as many people’s main or only source of news. Since there is virtually no moderation of content, it’s a place where bullshit flourishes, and serves to reinforce prejudices, bigotry and false narratives. This means politicians can spout blatant lies and nonsense without fear of contradiction or consequences....any attempt to challenge or fact check is met with the “fake news” mantra and they refuse to be held to account.

 

I’m not saying much of the press is anything but self interested scumbaggery but in the past there was at least an attempt in the broadsheets especially at factual and impartial reporting. That has now seems to have been overtaken by the constant diet of lies, smears and conspiracy theories that the gullible and stupid swallow as fact on social media.
 

its no accident that enemies of democracy like Russia and China put so much effort into social media engineering. Its accelerated the descent of politics in the US and probably UK too into the sewer and allow the likes of Trump and Johnson to lie and lie again without fear of the consequences. Trump is different class though and I’ve no doubt he would rather burn America down than relinquish power and face justice for his crimes.

 

Somewhere in the future I think the social media companies will have to take responsibility for the accuracy and impact of their content through regulation. Also not be allowed to rip off mainstream press content without paying for it. It’ll probably never happen in Murica though.

 

Not sure what can be done about it ttt. Perhaps people below a certain IQ level should be prevented from accessing the internet altogether.

Another thing seems to be the avoidance of scrutiny. Trump and Johnson hold press conferences where they're asked questions and are allowed to reply with utter nonsense then move on to the next journalist. They don't do sit down interviews with proper interviewers. Trump will call in to Fox News every so often but we saw recently that when he did allow an interview with the Australian fella who was properly prepared and willing to challenge him that he looked like a fool to all who viewed it. Even Chris Wallace of Fox News took him to task in the Rose Garden.

Meanwhile Johnson has been PM for over a year now and the only sit down interview I can recall him doing was in the run up to the election with Andrew Marr when he was running scared of Andrew Neill. That's pretty amazing that the leader of our country can avoid the media for so long but still retain such support.

Edited by ewerk

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11 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Another thing seems to be the avoidance of scrutiny. Trump and Johnson hold press conferences where they're asked questions and are allowed to reply with utter nonsense then move on to the next journalist. They don't do sit down interviews with proper interviewers. Trump will call in to Fox News every so often but we saw recently that when he did allow interviews with the Australian fella who was properly prepared and willing to challenge him that he looks like a fool to all who viewed it. Even Chris Wallace of Fox News took him to task in the Rose Garden.

Meanwhile Johnson has been PM for over a year now and the only sit down interview I can recall him doing was in the run up to the election with Andrew Marr when he was running scared of Andrew Neill. That's pretty amazing that the leader of our country can avoid the media for so long but still retain such support.


Johnson and Trump are similarly arrogant and narcissistic and obviously don’t consider themselves accountable to the press or the people. In Trump’s case he actively goes after the press corps, especially asian women/women of colour. Obviously deliberately to undermine the press but also because he’s big ol’ racist. I expect old etonian Johnson is contemptible of everyone, possibly with the exception of the Queen. Like a fat Lucius Malfoy with bad hair and added shambles.

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15 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Another thing seems to be the avoidance of scrutiny. Trump and Johnson hold press conferences where they're asked questions and are allowed to reply with utter nonsense then move on to the next journalist. They don't do sit down interviews with proper interviewers. Trump will call in to Fox News every so often but we saw recently that when he did allow interviews with the Australian fella who was properly prepared and willing to challenge him that he looks like a fool to all who viewed it. Even Chris Wallace of Fox News took him to task in the Rose Garden.

Meanwhile Johnson has been PM for over a year now and the only sit down interview I can recall him doing was in the run up to the election with Andrew Marr when he was running scared of Andrew Neill. That's pretty amazing that the leader of our country can avoid the media for so long but still retain such support.


I think the absence of scrutiny is an absolute disgrace. They do try in the usa on cnn and msnbc to critique trump but the likes of trevor noah and stephen colbert probably have more currency

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On 8/28/2020 at 19:42, Tom said:

Oh aye, he’ll be digging his claws in.

 

Personally I’m expecting a right wing reaction to the rise of left wing voices and possibly a shock win for Trump.

Agree.  I just wish that those protesting against clearly criminal actions by police think it appropriate to burn down businesses and loot.  None of the families want them to do that, and it just gives Trump and his followers an out.

He will certainly dig in, and as he has already said he won't accept the result if it goes against him.  If he loses, it will be militias on the streets and Trump in Court.  

Hopefully, the Republican party will not accept his refusing to leave, but you never know.  As with any politician, as long as it is their party, anything goes.

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We saw in Atlanta that it was the far right who started the damage and looting, that then led others to join in. I’d say there’s probably an element of that going on in other parts of the country in an attempt to delegitimise the protests.

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That's the one thing you definitely don't do in American politics. However, at least 1/3 of the electorate will dismiss it as fake news.

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The protester who shot a Trump supported a few days ago has been executed by the FBI.

 

I thought the US was already in a dark place, but now I see that they have further to go in that direction.

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It's unknowable, but it looks like all law enforcement agencies are deliberately  killing  certain citizens in cold blood.  Trump has placemen at the top of every federal institution including the judiciary and law enforcement. Biden needs to win but Trump is currently rigging it in plain sight, knowing that if/when he wins there will be no reprecussions whatsoever. The Mueller report was the first of many whitewashes to come. 

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It’ll be like North Korea in a few years. Trumps everywhere, his freaky sons, his insane daughter.

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1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

The protester who shot a Trump supported a few days ago has been executed by the FBI.

 

I thought the US was already in a dark place, but now I see that they have further to go in that direction.


I read that. I’d be interested to see the details

 

Im not sure we are at the point yet where the FBI are carrying out state sponsored murder. Trump was calling the FBI worse than shit last year 

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It wasn't the FBI, it was the US Marshall's Service. I think some of them were the ones sent in to lift people off the streets of Portland with no identification.

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US Marshal Service is still a Federal agency under the authority of the US Justice department, which is headed by US Attorney General William Barr, who is basically capo Di capo of all Trump's placemen. That's who the plain clothes goons are working for. That's how close to a fascist state the US is.

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