President Biden

[Rayvin 4964]

I agree with Jim Jefferies on this one. We don't have to save the planet, we have to save ourselves. The planet doesn't give a fuck about us and will be glad when we're gone

 

I wouldn't be overly surprised if the rich outlived us all. Full on conspiracy mode, they could get robots into the workforce to cover 99% of jobs carried out by people around the world, and then look for a global cataclysmic event (water shortage, food shortages, etc) to wipe out those of us who are no longer needed. Subsequently they can restore balance to the world using their robot slaves, ensuring a high quality of life for themselves.

 

 

That's what I'd do, anyway

[The Fish 8989]

I wouldn't be overly surprised if the rich outlived us all. Full on conspiracy mode, they could get robots into the workforce to cover 99% of jobs carried out by people around the world, and then look for a global cataclysmic event (water shortage, food shortages, etc) to wipe out those of us who are no longer needed. Subsequently they can restore balance to the world using their robot slaves, ensuring a high quality of life for themselves.

 

 

That's what I'd do, anyway

 

Maybe that's why Renton wanted to know the level of your perversion. Sure fire way to check if you'd fit in with the elites is just how Marquis de Sade-like you are. If you can only get your rocks off dangling from a noose, a Nazi-clad dominatrix paddling your behind and with barbiturates leaking from every pore... you're in

Edited December 1, 2016 by The Fish

[Rayvin 4964]

You know, that's a more reassuring explanation of that particular question than any I can think of, so sure, let's run with that

[Park Life 70]

I wouldn't be overly surprised if the rich outlived us all. Full on conspiracy mode, they could get robots into the workforce to cover 99% of jobs carried out by people around the world, and then look for a global cataclysmic event (water shortage, food shortages, etc) to wipe out those of us who are no longer needed. Subsequently they can restore balance to the world using their robot slaves, ensuring a high quality of life for themselves.

 

 

That's what I'd do, anyway

Outlive us!!!? They're planning immortality for themselves.

[Park Life 70]

I agree with Jim Jefferies on this one. We don't have to save the planet, we have to save ourselves. The planet doesn't give a fuck about us and will be glad when we're gone

I think you're begging to get it.

[Dr Gloom 19811]

I think you're begging to get it.

 

well, i don't see how electing donald trump is the start of the road to saving humanity. a climate change denier is in the white house...!

 

i don't think other populists care much about the great crisis the human race faces either

[Rayvin 4964]

well, i don't see how electing donald trump is the start of the road to saving humanity. a climate change denier is in the white house...!

 

i don't think other populists care much about the great crisis the human race faces either

 

It means they'll be exposed though. Unless trump actually does manage to invigorate meaningful change for people which we all consider to be unlikely. Exposed and then replaced by what will hopefully be a far superior brand of leftwing politics than what we've had up until this point.

[Dr Gloom 19811]

It means they'll be exposed though. Unless trump actually does manage to invigorate meaningful change for people which we all consider to be unlikely. Exposed and then replaced by what will hopefully be a far superior brand of leftwing politics than what we've had up until this point.

We're talking about saving the human race from environmental catastrophe. Donald Trump and other populists are going to put us back years, potentially speeding up the holocaust that finally does for the human race. The earth will sigh in relief when that happens

[Rayvin 4964]

As I say, we're on course for that anyway... Even the 'left wing' establishment has done fuck all about that. There's no political will to tackle the issue, there hasn't been for as long as we've been talking about this. Because they'd have to restructure the entire world economic system, and many of the established parties would find themselves a lot poorer.

 

The only hope I've had is that this constant dithering from the political class about such a serious issue is in order to allow these very wealthy people to transfer their wealth into assets that won't be affected by what needs to happen - and that when enough of them manage this, we'll be able to tackle it.

 

So yes, Trump will speed it up - but at least he genuinely doesn't seem to believe in it. Ire should be pointed more firmly at those who DO believe in climate change, and did nothing anyway. They had plenty of time.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 19811]

Not sure I agree with that assessment at all.

 

I'd say the Paris Agreement is a step in the right direction - a new consensus is forming; this is a crisis that can't be kicked down the road forever. It might already be too late for the human race to save itself from environmental disaster but let's all at least try. Trump is Dubya and the koyote protocol all over again.

[Rayvin 4964]

Not sure I agree with that assessment at all.

 

I'd say the Paris Agreement is a step in the right direction - a new consensus is forming; this is a crisis that can't be kicked down the road forever. It might already be too late for the human race to save itself from environmental disaster but let's all at least try. Trump is Dubya and the koyote protocol all over again.

 

You think our leaders have done enough? We've had 'serious warnings' about climate change since the early 1990s man, they've done fuck all. While I've no doubt that Trump will do us no favours, at this point he has done less harm to the fight against climate change than most other politicians worldwide.

[Renton 17744]

You think our leaders have done enough? We've had 'serious warnings' about climate change since the early 1990s man, they've done fuck all. While I've no doubt that Trump will do us no favours, at this point he has done less harm to the fight against climate change than most other politicians worldwide.

There was an interesting documentary on R4 the other week about the politics behind CFC elimination and how this worked to save the ozone layer. Ironically, CFCs have been replaced by HFAs which are potent greenhouse gases, but anyway. It was a massively difficult thing to achieve but an absolute piece of piss compared to getting international agreements on carbon reduction. Getting as far as the Paris agreement was a huge unprecedented success.

 

It's childish to say leaders have done fuck all when it was an emergent science with a fair bit of uncertainty attached and the cost of reduction is so great. Clinton would have been a progressive step in the right direction. Trump is likely to be an unmitigated disaster. The fact that you've alluded to him being a denier as some kind of moral positive is simply bizarre. The world is pretty much a worse place because of Trump's election in every way imaginable. Trying to grasp positives is pointless. And yet.... if you are genuinely concerned about this and show it on this board you are pretty much held up to ridicule.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Renton

[Rayvin 4964]

There was an interesting documentary on R4 the other week about the politics behind CFC elimination and how this worked to save the ozone layer. Ironically, CFCs have been replaced by HFAs which are potent greenhouse gases, but anyway. It was a massively difficult thing to achieve but an absolute piece of piss compared to getting international agreements on carbon reduction. Getting as far as the Paris agreement was a huge unprecedented agreement.

 

It's childish to say leaders have done fuck all when it was an emergent science with a fair bit of uncertainty attached and the cost of reduction is so great. Clinton would have been a progressive step in the right direction. Trump is likely to be an unmitigated disaster. The fact that you've alluded to him being a denier as some kind of moral positive is simply bizarre. The world is pretty much a worse place because if Trump's election in every way imaginable. Trying to grasp positives is pointless. And yet.... if you are genuinely concerned about this and show it on this board you are pretty much held up to ridicule.

 

I don't think that last part is true at all, I've never sought to ridicule anyone.

 

Otherwise I'll concede on the point about how difficult it will have been to come to accord on tackling the ozone layer problem. I'm not saying any of this has been easy - I think what I'm saying is that the reason this is so difficult is literally because of politics. Each country trying to work out if every other country is just trying to screw them over, focusing on how they can maintain their competitive advantage and relative power in the world, etc. This is an event that will bring us all together - probably in our lifetimes - as we watch in horror at the hell we have wrought by worrying about profits and politics comes to fruition.

 

Yes, Trump is a total disaster for this process. But he thinks Climate change is a conspiracy by the Chinese. The Chinese think the same thing but about the West. Politics getting in the way of solutions.

[Renton 17744]

I don't think that last part is true at all, I've never sought to ridicule anyone.

 

Otherwise I'll concede on the point about how difficult it will have been to come to accord on tackling the ozone layer problem. I'm not saying any of this has been easy - I think what I'm saying is that the reason this is so difficult is literally because of politics. Each country trying to work out if every other country is just trying to screw them over, focusing on how they can maintain their competitive advantage and relative power in the world, etc. This is an event that will bring us all together - probably in our lifetimes - as we watch in horror at the hell we have wrought by worrying about profits and politics comes to fruition.

 

Yes, Trump is a total disaster for this process. But he thinks Climate change is a conspiracy by the Chinese. The Chinese think the same thing but about the West. Politics getting in the way of solutions.

Didn't mean you or anyone else specifically but I do get fed up with the BAMFU attitude that you're over-reacting if you feel genuine concern , even horror, over what has happened.

 

Yes, global politics is incredibly messy which is why it's so important for the most powerful country to take a lead. Without the US onboard, I'm afraid all I can see is climactic catastrophe. We're talking of suffering to maybe billions of people here. Humans will live on but the future might not be great.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Renton

[Rayvin 4964]

Didn't mean you or anyone else specifically but I do get fed up with the BAMFU attitude that you're over-reacting if you feel genuine concern , even horror, over what has happened.

 

Yes, global politics is incredibly messy which is why it's so important for the most powerful country to take a lead. Without the US onboard, I'm afraid all I can see is climactic catastrophe. We're talking of suffering to maybe billions of people here. Humans will live on but the future might not be great.

 

Ah ok. I want to make clear that I am also horrified by what has happened - while I think much of it was unavoidable and a fairly logical consequence of failed political strategies, I don't want to see hard right governments, Brexit, diminished prospects for the future and tribalistic hatred in resurgence. All of these things horrify me. I stand with you on that.

 

I made 'darkest before the dawn' something of a personal motto years ago, and I think it's that notion that's getting me through!

[Renton 17744]

Darkest just before dawn is a myth btw. It's darkest halfway between sunset and sunrise.

 

Don't get me wrong, the humour on this board is what keeps it going but by God do I hate politics at the moment. The last 18 months have been an utter thundercunt.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Renton

[Rayvin 4964]

Darkest just before dawn is a myth btw. It's darkest halfway between sunset and sunrise.

 

Don't get me wrong, the humour on this board is what keeps it going but by God do I hate politics at the moment. The last 18 months have been an utter thundercunt.

 

I have held to it as a metaphor more than fact.

 

I think politics since Brown has been one long tragedy to be honest. The financial crisis is probably something I will look back on as one of the defining political moments of my life, judging by the trajectory the world has taken since.

 

It definitely has been more intensely bad since the last GE though.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Rayvin

[Dr Gloom 19811]

You think our leaders have done enough? We've had 'serious warnings' about climate change since the early 1990s man, they've done fuck all. While I've no doubt that Trump will do us no favours, at this point he has done less harm to the fight against climate change than most other politicians worldwide.

 

he has the potential to do a lot more harm if he sets america back 20 years and china follows. 

[Rayvin 4964]

Obama's impact:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/dec/01/obama-fossil-fuels-us-export-import-bank-energy-projects

 

Not good.

[Dr Gloom 19811]

Surprised to see you post links from that agenda driven MSM outlet.

 

Clearly Obama wasn't perfect, the fracking thing will sadly be his energy legacy, particularly given Trump's appetite for it. But at least he acknowledged it is an issue and signed the Paris Accord. Trump is in denial about the issue man, this is not a good thing.

[Rayvin 4964]

I almost exclusively post links from the Guardian

 

And I know, it was just a timely report in terms of the discussion.

[NJS 3977]

Not sure I agree with that assessment at all.

 

I'd say the Paris Agreement is a step in the right direction - a new consensus is forming; this is a crisis that can't be kicked down the road forever. It might already be too late for the human race to save itself from environmental disaster but let's all at least try. Trump is Dubya and the koyote protocol all over again.

Problem with that was giving two of the worst culprits (China and India) years to even start doing anything.

[toonotl 2409]

Yep. It's an interesting one because the populace of India and China are westernising which is making things better for them but worse for the environment. It strikes me as kind of immoral for the west to demand that the likes of India and China be expected to halt improving the lives of their citizenry. Although, I guess there's an argument that westernising doesn't improve the lives of people, it just makes them consumers like the rest of us. Fuck, I don't know. It's a complex issue made worse by the scale of the problem versus the limited potential impact each of the interested parties can have without forcing the other parties to comply with their planned actions. 

 

Bit rambling, but I'm trying to say, what right does the west have to demand that Indian, Chinese and other developing/third world nation peasants stay poor so the rest of us can pollute at a level that wouldn't be sustainable if everyone did it?

 

FWIW, I think everyone needs to act immediately, but in saying that, I do fuck all about it either. I tend to agree with Rayvin, nothing will happen until the second before it's too late.

[Dr Gloom 19811]

Trump promises Pakistan rare presidential visit, a country he has frequently accused of harbouring terrorists. Trump said “Your country is amazing with tremendous opportunities. Pakistanis are one of the most intelligent people. I am ready and willing to play any role that you want me to play to address and find solutions to the outstanding problems.”

 

“On being invited to visit Pakistan by the prime minister, Mr Trump said that he would love to come to a fantastic country, fantastic place of fantastic people.”

 

He never ceases to surprise, I'll give him that.

[Dr Gloom 19811]

Yep. It's an interesting one because the populace of India and China are westernising which is making things better for them but worse for the environment. It strikes me as kind of immoral for the west to demand that the likes of India and China be expected to halt improving the lives of their citizenry. Although, I guess there's an argument that westernising doesn't improve the lives of people, it just makes them consumers like the rest of us. Fuck, I don't know. It's a complex issue made worse by the scale of the problem versus the limited potential impact each of the interested parties can have without forcing the other parties to comply with their planned actions.

 

Bit rambling, but I'm trying to say, what right does the west have to demand that Indian, Chinese and other developing/third world nation peasants stay poor so the rest of us can pollute at a level that wouldn't be sustainable if everyone did it?

 

FWIW, I think everyone needs to act immediately, but in saying that, I do fuck all about it either. I tend to agree with Rayvin, nothing will happen until the second before it's too late.

You don't want to put the brakes on the developing world but somethjng has to be done. That state of the air pollution in places like Beijing and Raipur is shocking.