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1 hour ago, PaddockLad said:

 Bannon has been pardoned before he was convicted of anything..

 

What a fuckin country :lol:

 

 

He was also pleading not guilty whereas I understand clemency is normally reserved for those that admit their guilt. I'm really struggling to understand why a president can pardon anyone though? Is this another part of their tinpot constitution? 

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4 hours ago, Renton said:

He was also pleading not guilty whereas I understand clemency is normally reserved for those that admit their guilt. I'm really struggling to understand why a president can pardon anyone though? Is this another part of their tinpot constitution? 

If he accepts the pardon, it will imply guilt, and will take away his right to invoke the 5th Amendment in future. 

The powers of pardon and clemency exist to give the executive branch a check on the judiciary. During the arguments for ratification of the Constitution, many feared that an unelected judiciary who held their positions for life would lead to tyranny, so the Founding Fathers wrote in safety valves. The Constitution is not "tinpot" whatsoever - it is a magnificent work of art that has persisted through the centuries. The problem is the character of the men who uphold it. 

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2 minutes ago, acrossthepond said:

If he accepts the pardon, it will imply guilt, and will take away his right to invoke the 5th Amendment in future. 

The powers of pardon and clemency exist to give the executive branch a check on the judiciary. During the arguments for ratification of the Constitution, many feared that an unelected judiciary who held their positions for life would lead to tyranny, so the Founding Fathers wrote in safety valves. The Constitution is not "tinpot" whatsoever - it is a magnificent work of art that has persisted through the centuries. The problem is the character of the men who uphold it. 

 

Fair enough, but your last point does seem to be a fundamental flaw. I've always wondered if there is a way for a constitution to evolve in line with contemporary values and practicalities. The second ammendment in the US would suggest it hasn't worked there and could ultimately be fatal. It's led to all manner of perverse outcomes. 

 

Not that I can criticise too much being a subject of the Queen in a country with no written constitution at all. 

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13 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Aye, can you imagine the damage Trump would have done if the US had our parliamentary system?

You barely need to imagine it. Trump feels like a blip compared to the sea change here over the past 4 years 

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42 minutes ago, ewerk said:

Though your second amendment could do with a bit of work.

The way some Americans deify the Constitution is mental. Screaming you can't change it and must abide by it as it was written. Even though arguably the most famous parts of it are the fucking amendments. 

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1 hour ago, acrossthepond said:

If he accepts the pardon, it will imply guilt, and will take away his right to invoke the 5th Amendment in future. 

The powers of pardon and clemency exist to give the executive branch a check on the judiciary. During the arguments for ratification of the Constitution, many feared that an unelected judiciary who held their positions for life would lead to tyranny, so the Founding Fathers wrote in safety valves. The Constitution is not "tinpot" whatsoever - it is a magnificent work of art that has persisted through the centuries. The problem is the character of the men who uphold it. 

 

So that's why Trump hasn't pardoned himself or any of his offspring...its an admission of guilt. Not sure of Bannon will accept his tbh

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11 minutes ago, PaddockLad said:

 

So that's why Trump hasn't pardoned himself or any of his offspring...its an admission of guilt. Not sure of Bannon will accept his tbh

 

He'll be waiting til 11.59 to drop those pardons.

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  • Andrew changed the title to President Biden

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