RobinRobin 9136 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: As serious a subject as this is I’m just chuckling at your use of the word crossbars. So was I 🙂 But on a serious note - wtf is the problem with these people? Appalling if true but unfortunately another Trump legacy 🙁 Fuckwits! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19714 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 maybe gilead isn't as dystopian as it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3953 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 The republicans have been working towards this day since Reagan when the evangelicals came on board - Trump is incidental. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4948 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 I have no idea how my mind even got to that. Obviously I meant crosshairs. Maybe it was autocorrect tbh, it could have been that I posted this from my phone So as I understand it, the legislative case for this being overturned is that it should never have been a state level decision in the first place because it doesn't sit comfortably under the remit of what the constitution currently stands for (and this is what state level rulings are supposed to cater to). I understand nowhere near enough of the American legal framework to give an opinion one way or the other on that, but I do wonder why the solution isn't then to go to the constitution and amend it in such a way that it does become a state level concern. The upshot will be that individual states will get to decide on the rules around this, likely returning America to a situation wherein women in some states have to travel to other states to have their needs met. It is a very regressive policy. I have also come to understand that the precedent of potentially overturning it has wide reaching ramifications for other laws, such as gay marriage and sex - which was legalised under an apparently similar framework to Roe vs Wade, and thus is vulnerable to the exact same reasoning being used to overturn this. The demographics for this are bizarre too. 60% of Americans believe things should remain as they are, including apparently a majority (slender) of the Republican party. Which leads you to wonder if perhaps we're seeing the same 35% of right wing nutjobs being catered to over there as we do here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4948 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 1 minute ago, NJS said: The republicans have been working towards this day since Reagan when the evangelicals came on board - Trump is incidental. Maybe so, but Trump appointed 3 right leaning supreme court judges - so his time in office continues to leave a dark legacy to this day. Granted, it would have been the same with any Republican leader - but it would not have happened under Clinton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26100 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 2 minutes ago, Rayvin said: I understand nowhere near enough of the American legal framework to give an opinion one way or the other on that, but I do wonder why the solution isn't then to go to the constitution and amend it in such a way that it does become a state level concern. The US Constitution is incredibly hard to amend. You need both chambers to achieve a 2/3 super majority then you need 3/4 of individual states to agree and that's never going to happen with a divisive issue like this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3565 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 The religious far right now control the judiciary in the US. Elections will matter less and less in the future because at the very least Republicans will have the power to block anything they don't want with an increasingly small share of the vote Look at Biden, he nominally has the presidency the house and the senate but he can't pass anything worthwhile. Even if he wanted to US going to be a strange place in the next few years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26100 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Maybe so, but Trump appointed 3 right leaning supreme court judges - so his time in office continues to leave a dark legacy to this day. Granted, it would have been the same with any Republican leader - but it would not have happened under Clinton. Don't forget that Republicans refused to consider the nomination of Merrick Garland as it was in the final six months of Obama's term but had no such qualms in allowing Trump to nominate RBG's successor in his last few months. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spongebob toonpants 3565 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 5 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Maybe so, but Trump appointed 3 right leaning supreme court judges - so his time in office continues to leave a dark legacy to this day. Granted, it would have been the same with anf Republican leader - but it would not have happened under Clinton. 3 lifetime appointments who are all young. Unless he packs the court, which he has shown no intention of doing, the court is gone for a generation 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19714 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 3 minutes ago, spongebob toonpants said: US going to be a strange place in the next few years 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3953 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 7 minutes ago, Rayvin said: Maybe so, but Trump appointed 3 right leaning supreme court judges - so his time in office continues to leave a dark legacy to this day. Granted, it would have been the same with any Republican leader - but it would not have happened under Clinton. That's exactly the strategy since the start - along with state level bollocks like Texas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26100 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, RobinRobin said: So was I 🙂 But on a serious note - wtf is the problem with these people? Appalling if true but unfortunately another Trump legacy 🙁 Fuckwits! It’s strange that a lot of the anti-abortion lot are also strongly against federal state control except when it comes to a woman’s body. I bet if you drew a Venn diagram of those against government controls on guns and those for government control of women it would be a pretty solid circle. Edited May 3, 2022 by ewerk 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4948 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 But they would likely argue, I suppose, that they're all about the right for what they consider to be an unborn child to live. And that opposing the government killing unborn babies is not inconsistent with opposing the government controlling guns. I don't think they will frame the issue as being about controlling women's bodies, even if that's how we see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26100 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 They can try to frame it however they want but ultimately it's about to what degree the government can interfere in people's lives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9136 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 In other words - do as I say not as I do. Dangerous fuckwits! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4948 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 Well yes I'm really just saying that it's not like both sides are looking at this issue on the same points and disagreeing. One side fundamentally believes that we are killing children. No matter how misguided they are in this belief, it's a hard sell to argue with someone who genuinely does believe that this is what's happening, that it is a good thing to do. If you asked your average pro-life voter if, away from abortion, the government should get to control what women do with their bodies - I suspect that the answer would be a firm no. It's the specifics of this issue that allow for the muddying of the water. As tempting as it is to believe that they do this because they hate women or want to control them - and at the political level that's likely actually true, or at best they don't care about women and will trade them away for votes - if these people really do believe that abortion is killing babies, can we expect them to drop the issue? Would we, if that's what we believed. I mean this is a group of anti-intellectual science deniers. I really don't see how this debate ever goes away without a much better education system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeys Fist 38494 Posted May 3, 2022 Share Posted May 3, 2022 31 minutes ago, ewerk said: They can try to frame it however they want but ultimately it's about to what degree the government can interfere in people's lives. Which is why it’s ( the abortion issue) a great example of how easily led voters are. Let’s agree it’s predominantly Republicans who are opposed to abortion ( mainly because their favoured politicians have told them it is) , the same Republicans who constantly complain about “the Gub’mint” interfering with their lives… … you all know this, but I enjoy pointing it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9136 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 13 hours ago, Dr Gloom said: Of course, Amy Coney Barrett's particularly nutty variety of religion had to rename their "handmaids". Wonder which way she would vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34133 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 I reckon one of more of those justices voting to overturn will end up dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinRobin 9136 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Reckon they all will eventually, but as you imply, sooner rather than later would be likely for some of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonpack 6754 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 18 hours ago, Kevin Carr's Gloves said: As serious a subject as this is I’m just chuckling at your use of the word crossbars. The goal is to repeal it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKev1984 4 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 16 hours ago, Rayvin said: Well yes I'm really just saying that it's not like both sides are looking at this issue on the same points and disagreeing. One side fundamentally believes that we are killing children. No matter how misguided they are in this belief, it's a hard sell to argue with someone who genuinely does believe that this is what's happening, that it is a good thing to do. If you asked your average pro-life voter if, away from abortion, the government should get to control what women do with their bodies - I suspect that the answer would be a firm no. It's the specifics of this issue that allow for the muddying of the water. As tempting as it is to believe that they do this because they hate women or want to control them - and at the political level that's likely actually true, or at best they don't care about women and will trade them away for votes - if these people really do believe that abortion is killing babies, can we expect them to drop the issue? Would we, if that's what we believed. I mean this is a group of anti-intellectual science deniers. I really don't see how this debate ever goes away without a much better education system. It is literally the killing of an unborn child. as for anti science… men can now menstruate and get pregnant so it can no longer be described as an attack on women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strawb 3647 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 Why don’t we just castrate all men to stop unwanted pregnancies? Starting with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKev1984 4 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 1 minute ago, strawb said: Why don’t we just castrate all men to stop unwanted pregnancies? Starting with you? Too late, I have spread my excellent seed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingKev1984 4 Posted May 4, 2022 Share Posted May 4, 2022 If only there were some way of not getting pregnant 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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