Rayvin 4948 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I moved into the numbers because Alex compared Labour's performance to the SNP, which I don't think holds up as an argument in this case given how Scotland voted. Â I'll check out the podcast I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 30202 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) I moved into the numbers because Alex compared Labour's performance to the SNP, which I don't think holds up as an argument in this case given how Scotland voted. Â I'll check out the podcast I guess... I compared it to both the leaders of the main parties in England rather than just Corbyn. Edit: Also, if the latter were more effective as a leader then he'd have more supporters and people voting for him too. So, just comparing percentages of SNP and Labour voters isn't really as comprehensive as you seem to think Edited February 24, 2017 by Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4948 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) Well in that case I agree with it more given how the Tories split went, but everyone appears to have accepted that this looks about right for them...? Â EDIT - (on your edit) as ever, I find myself frustrated that no one can prove anything to me. I just get told that I'm talking rubbish and that the reasons are self-evident. If comparing percentages isn't as comprehensive as I'd think, what metric would be? Edited February 24, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS 3953 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I suppose the question is if Cameron "knew" most tories were going to vote out and therefore was relying on labour voters to save his arse or he thought he could persuade his voters to vote remain - either way that adds to his culpability for calling the fucking thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4948 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 It does. But I'm not sure why we're so keen to avoid talking about all those new voters. They swung the thing. Cameron's gamble as you've set it out there actually would have worked had they not been involved. Corbyn's Labour along with the Lib Dems and Greens would have been enough to take it the right way. Â Either way, the upshot as Renton noted, is that Labour are paying the price for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17522 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Cameron is most culpable for calling the referendum purely for partisan reasons, knowing what a risk it was. Â Corbyn is second most culpable for sabotaging Remain because he was really a leaver. That may be harsh though. Maybe he's second most culpable for being completely shit at his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17522 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Rita Chakrabati on C4 news there. Â It's horrible to say but I have never seen a party so deluded and out of touch as Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19714 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Cameron is going to go down as the worst pm of all time thanks to his hair brained decision to call a referendum. There was literally no need to do so - and especially not one as basic as in/out ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renton 17522 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Cameron is going to go down as the worst pm of all time thanks to his hair brained decision to call a referendum. There was literally no need to do so - and especially not one as basic as in/out ffs. Well as we've been discussing today, depends how you look at it. From a conservative political viewpoint, it appears to be a masterstroke. He's literally destroyed the opposition party. Â (No I'm not really crediting him with some kind of Machiavellian plan. Butterflies and hurricanes spring to mind) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26103 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 And now the useless fucker has lost Copeland, a labour stronghold for 80 years, and yet Corbyn and his acolytes are hailing last night as some sort of success. It's pathetic. Corbyn has been an utter disaster for this country and continues to be so. Â It was an 'achievement'. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5873 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 David Miliband to swoop in and save the day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26103 Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 He'd need a seat in parliament first but aye, he's their best bet imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/25/wings-labour-blame-electoral-collapse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 13921 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/25/wings-labour-blame-electoral-collapse  So it turns out Renton and Rayvin are both right.   "Rejoice! We conquer! Victory on Toontastic! It's VT Day!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 13921 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I presume even Corbyn can't lose the Gorton by-election, anyway (shame to hear about Kaufman, always seemed a good sort). 24,000 majority - the Greens came second last time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Gorton_%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29#Elections_in_the_2010s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3176 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 I presume even Corbyn can't lose the Gorton by-election, anyway (shame to hear about Kaufman, always seemed a good sort). 24,000 majority - the Greens came second last time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Gorton_%28UK_Parliament_constituency%29#Elections_in_the_2010s   How did it vote during EU referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 13921 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 How did it vote during EU referendum. Â 60% Remain in Manchester generally, don't know if it gets broken down to constituency level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Carr's Gloves 3176 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 60% Remain in Manchester generally, don't know if it gets broken down to constituency level. Â Could make it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4948 Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 So it turns out Renton and Rayvin are both right.   "Rejoice! We conquer! Victory on Toontastic! It's VT Day!"  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Save me reading it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 It begins. Â https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/27/clive-lewis-denies-registering-websites-for-labour-leadership-bid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Park Life 70 Posted March 1, 2017 Author Share Posted March 1, 2017 ''And what of the press? The abuse of the right wing is as crude as we could have expected. But the papers that present themselves as radical have been revealed to be nothing of the sort. The Guardian and Mirror have become cheerleaders for the old Labour establishment. Column after column demands that Corbyn should go. Extinct volcanoes from New Labour are quoted with glee. A big headline for Mandelson: “I work every single day to oust Corbyn.” Mandelson had to resign twice from the cabinet in disgrace. Why give him such prominence, except to add to the anti-Corbyn mood music? Broadcasters take their cue from the press. A report found that during the campaign for Corbyn’s re-election the BBC chose twice as many interviewees who were hostile to Corbyn as were supportive. The critique is personal and as vicious as that waged against Arthur Scargill. If evidence were needed of Corbyn’s strength, it is his ability to withstand this onslaught.'' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meenzer 13921 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Self-flagellation and denial of all the good things Labour did in power is precisely why they'll never be in power again. You wouldn't catch the Tories rubbishing their own brand like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26103 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 ''And what of the press? The abuse of the right wing is as crude as we could have expected. But the papers that present themselves as radical have been revealed to be nothing of the sort. The Guardian and Mirror have become cheerleaders for the old Labour establishment. Column after column demands that Corbyn should go. Extinct volcanoes from New Labour are quoted with glee. A big headline for Mandelson: “I work every single day to oust Corbyn.” Mandelson had to resign twice from the cabinet in disgrace. Why give him such prominence, except to add to the anti-Corbyn mood music? Broadcasters take their cue from the press. A report found that during the campaign for Corbyn’s re-election the BBC chose twice as many interviewees who were hostile to Corbyn as were supportive. The critique is personal and as vicious as that waged against Arthur Scargill. If evidence were needed of Corbyn’s strength, it is his ability to withstand this onslaught.''  BULLSHIT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now