Gemmill 34413 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 HF has left Dave wearing 100% of his underpants back to front in 75% as few words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelie 103 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I believe that Nitro has the potential to be an excellent striker but I don't think that potential will be realized unless he is given a goodly run of games as a starter. This in and out, out and in, not on the bench etc etc will be demeaning and not allow him to flourish. He is decent in the air, he holds the ball up well, he has decent ball control, he has the makings of a decent striker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Except for his inability to strike a ball at target consistently with any sort of composure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19806 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 He could still potentially become a good player, there were flashes of potential last season. I just don't see it being here if Rafa stays. His finishing, I think even his biggest admirers would admit, is awful. And he's gone backwards despite dropping down a division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Your comparison to Carroll supports everyone elses argument. He was good in the championship. Mitro isn't. Murphy has had less than a third of the opportunities in terms of game time but scored 75% as many goals from less than a quarter as many shots, despite being older and slower. Then I've not explained it clearly. Carroll was good in the Championship because he was 1st choice striker, playing in a system that was catered to his style and alongside an experienced striker, in a very settled, superior team of experienced (and in some cases international) players. Mitrovic is decent in the championship (1/2 GpS) despite not being first choice, playing in a system that is catered to a slight, mobile striker, and often at the front of a much changed side. Murphy in the past 2 years he's played in England he has managed 3,574 minutes in 49 appearances, with 14 goals and 8 assists. Mitrovic in the past 2 years he's played in England he has managed 3,265 minutes in 59 appearances, with 15 goals and 8 assists. One of those was a very experienced striker in the second tier, the other was a kid from Belgium who joined a team bound for the drop and hasn't played much since. When Murphy comes into the team he knows the league he's played in for most of his career, he knows the role he's played for a decade and he's doing what he's done for his entire career; scoring a few goals but mostly providing for others. When Mitrovic comes into the team he's learning the league, he's learning the role and he's not doing half as bad as people are making out. fwiw I guarantee we wouldn't have been given the 2nd goal against Huddersfield had Mitrovic replicated Murphy's challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howay 12452 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I think it was Wolves away - I don't think his second foul was a yellow, he had every right to go for the ball but it could have easily have been given. Aye I think it was that one. While I think it may have been harsh, as you say they are given and it was just a poor choice to make when you're already on a yellow and have been throwing yourself about up to then. It was in the first half too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 It's not excessive criticism. There's a valid reason why people are critical of him this season - he hasn't been very good. This is coming from people who liked what they saw last season and want him to succeed here, myself included. It speaks volumes that he doesn't compare favourably to Shola, who despite being a 29 year old pro, was still a donkey. Ultimately it come down to whether Rafa is still here in the summer - and we should all be praying that is the case. But that means the end of mitro's career here and a new striker in that Rafa fancies. There has been some excessive criticism mind. I've heard all so sorts of shite about him, people playing he should never play again because he missed some chances (the penalty in particular) against Oxford, people shouting at him to head the ball when he just has etc. Some of it is absolutely pathetic (not saying this is you btw) and leads to others going over the top the other way. The reality is the stats don't tell the true story because he's not getting a proper run in the team. As Fish pointed out he regularly only gets a few minutes at the end and that's no good for a lad of his age if we're wanting to see him improve. Also we really haven't been particularly well set up for him this season. We've generally been looking for a pacey striker and playing balls into the box much more suited to Gayle. But he's also had some poor games and I don't think anyone can deny that. He had quite a good run earlier on in the season when he scored those goals against Preston but since then he's not taken his chance and disappointed for a player most expected would do well in this division given a very respectable first season. Regardless of whether either side in the argument is going over the top, he really hasn't been a player that Rafa has trusted to do what he wants from him and I can't see that changing in the future. I do think he's got the makings of a player but I don't think he's really cut out to play as a lone striker and if Rafa's here that's the formation he'll play most of the time so I see him being replaced in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19806 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) @@The Fish He is doing as badly as most people are making out. As far as I can see it, most people thought he did alright last season and showed some potential but this season he hasn't lived up to it. Murphy had offered more when called on. All perfectly reasonable stuff. The issue is that clearly the manager doesn't rate him. And that's all that counts, really. In Rafa we trust. Edited March 7, 2017 by Dr Gloom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 297 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Rafa's not staying and we won't be able to sell Mitro at a profit either , so my rule of Fat Ashley says that this whole discussion is moot. Rafa gone once the season is over, Mitro here next year. right o, back to being a miserable cnut at work for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19806 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 There has been some excessive criticism mind. I've heard all so sorts of shite about him, people playing he should never play again because he missed some chances (the penalty in particular) against Oxford, people shouting at him to head the ball when he just has etc. Some of it is absolutely pathetic (not saying this is you btw) and leads to others going over the top the other way. The reality is the stats don't tell the true story because he's not getting a proper run in the team. As Fish pointed out he regularly only gets a few minutes at the end and that's no good for a lad of his age if we're wanting to see him improve. Also we really haven't been particularly well set up for him this season. We've generally been looking for a pacey striker and playing balls into the box much more suited to Gayle. But he's also had some poor games and I don't think anyone can deny that. He had quite a good run earlier on in the season when he scored those goals against Preston but since then he's not taken his chance and disappointed for a player most expected would do well in this division given a very respectable first season. Regardless of whether either side in the argument is going over the top, he really hasn't been a player that Rafa has trusted to do what he wants from him and I can't see that changing in the future. I do think he's got the makings of a player but I don't think he's really cut out to play as a lone striker and if Rafa's here that's the formation he'll play most of the time so I see him being replaced in the summer. I've haven't read or heard much criticism that's been over the top tbh but then I only go to 2-3 games a season and chat on here. From what I've seen, most people rated him as a rough diamond and hoped he'd tear up this league and develop into our main target man. It isn't unreasonable to be disappointed with his meagre return this season. I think that's more to do with the player's efforts on the field and training than it is on Rafa. Though I do think he lacks the mobility and pace to play as the lead striker in Rafa's preferred formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 There has been some excessive criticism mind. I've heard all so sorts of shite about him, people playing he should never play again because he missed some chances (the penalty in particular) against Oxford, people shouting at him to head the ball when he just has etc. Some of it is absolutely pathetic (not saying this is you btw) and leads to others going over the top the other way. The reality is the stats don't tell the true story because he's not getting a proper run in the team. As Fish pointed out he regularly only gets a few minutes at the end and that's no good for a lad of his age if we're wanting to see him improve. Also we really haven't been particularly well set up for him this season. We've generally been looking for a pacey striker and playing balls into the box much more suited to Gayle. But he's also had some poor games and I don't think anyone can deny that. He had quite a good run earlier on in the season when he scored those goals against Preston but since then he's not taken his chance and disappointed for a player most expected would do well in this division given a very respectable first season. Regardless of whether either side in the argument is going over the top, he really hasn't been a player that Rafa has trusted to do what he wants from him and I can't see that changing in the future. I do think he's got the makings of a player but I don't think he's really cut out to play as a lone striker and if Rafa's here that's the formation he'll play most of the time so I see him being replaced in the summer. Aye, agree with this, but I think he'll learn how to be a lone striker because that's how most teams play, so he'll have to. Just wanted to say that HF's shot accuracy stat is really misleading. Last season Murphy was around 44%, which is about par for non-league-leading strikers. 80% is aberrant rather than the norm. fwiw 15/16, when Mitrovic was actually a 1st team striker, his shot accuracy was 49% which was better than Murphy's, Benteke's, Berahino's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I honestly think the excessive criticism he gets is a direct reaction to the only semi-serious adulation he gets from the young fans. Just like older fans used to go spare because Ameobi's name got sung a lot. That's a false assumption completely, the criticism is aimed at his failure to score many goals since he arrived. He couldn't finish his dinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 I've haven't read or heard much criticism that's been over the top tbh but then I only go to 2-3 games a season and chat on here. From what I've seen, most people rated him as a rough diamond and hoped he'd tear up this league and develop into our main target man. It isn't unreasonable to be disappointed with his meagre return this season. I think that's more to do with the player's efforts on the field and training than it is on Rafa. Though I do think he lacks the mobility and pace to play as the lead striker in Rafa's preferred formation. Meagre return = Amongst the top 5 for goals and assist at the club (and more goals than Murphy)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8989 Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 That's a false assumption completely, the criticism is aimed at his failure to score many goals since he arrived. He couldn't finish his dinner 15 goals since he arrived= not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I've haven't read or heard much criticism that's been over the top tbh but then I only go to 2-3 games a season and chat on here. From what I've seen, most people rated him as a rough diamond and hoped he'd tear up this league and develop into our main target man. It isn't unreasonable to be disappointed with his meagre return this season. I think that's more to do with the player's efforts on the field and training than it is on Rafa. Though I do think he lacks the mobility and pace to play as the lead striker in Rafa's preferred formation. No the criticism on here hasn't been as bad as what I've heard at the match and in the bars around town. And when I say Rafa doesn't trust him, I'm certainly not suggesting it's just because of his disciplinary record. I think it's because of what he's getting from him in training/in matches. I totally admit he's been disappointing, I just think it's not all his fault. I just don't think it will make a difference going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kelly 1117 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Aye, agree with this, but I think he'll learn how to be a lone striker because that's how most teams play, so he'll have to. Just wanted to say that HF's shot accuracy stat is really misleading. Last season Murphy was around 44%, which is about par for non-league-leading strikers. 80% is aberrant rather than the norm. fwiw 15/16, when Mitrovic was actually a 1st team striker, his shot accuracy was 49% which was better than Murphy's, Benteke's, Berahino's. I'm not totally convinced he can learn to be a lone striker mind. I think he can improve but I don't think he can ever really do that job well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 15 goals since he arrived= not many. We could never rely on him to score important goals or win games, he's only scored 4 in the Championship. The chances he was missing last season were ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I'd honestly rather play Murphy, at least he knows where the goal is and is proven in this division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I think I should get more starts at Newcastle. Doesn't matter how shit I am or that I've never shown any ability. Give me 20 starts and I might do OK. You have nothing to prove this is not true. The Trump approach to punditry. Let's go with the evidence. If he's not hitting the target and not scoring goals and hasn't in 2 years, even at a lower level, then he's not going to suddenly sprout wings and start flying. No matter how much you like his enthusiasm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooneyToony 41 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Is this the Reading vs Newcastle thread or the Reading about Mitrovic thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Is this the Reading vs Newcastle thread or the Reading about Mitrovic thread? God forbid we talk about NUFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobos 297 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Gouffy in for Atsu, Gamez for Anita. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anorthernsoul 1221 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19806 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Meagre return = Amongst the top 5 for goals and assist at the club (and more goals than Murphy)? Meagre return: 4 goals in the championship from a striker I thought would have treble that at this stage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooneyToony 41 Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Gamez starting at RB? Now there's a curious decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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