The Fish 8950 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Outside of the top 7 I'd say that Southampton and Stoke are really only the other two good sides. I'm not saying that we've a divine right to finish above all the rest but with the right investment and Rafa in charge we should be capable of it. Absolutely, but I think it's too much too soon to expect it this coming season. Doesn't it make sense to buy a bunch of players that can deliver you safety (12-15th)for £60m, then in the summer that follows buy a few more players that will deliver 8th-10th another £60m? Spreading £120m over two seasons, instead of gambling that £100m will deliver top half immediately? I think that's part of the reason we've looked a little disjointed, too many new players all coming in at once. Might be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19744 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 He bought players for the championship to do a job in the division, which they managed. He needs to be backed to do the same in the premier. At least half of our first team should be squad players fighting for a start, not automatic first choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8950 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 He'd probably keep us up with what we've got and a typical Ashley budget but he and we will want more than another season of hanging on for survival. The question is will Ashley? If he only offers a meagre purse, Benitez will rightly walk as he can take his pick from jobs across the continent where he'll be backed by an ambitious owner. This season will only further enhance his cv I think Safety is a reasonable and realistic aim for next season. Sound investment of a decent budget will deliver that under Rafa. £100m is a huge amount of money for us, surely too much given the lack of tv income 16/17? That said, if we've £30m from Sissoko et al + another £30m from new player sales (de Jong, Saivet, championship players), + a £30m commitment from Ashley... maybe it's not too optimistic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 To be fair to Ashley, he has actually stumped up for the past two seasons (albeit not his own money, but a reasonable indication that we should have funds available if the club has generated them itself). The gamble in January was tedious but if he and Rafa can come to an agreement now, it could actually pay off in the long run. If we'd forked out £15-20m then it could have been on subpar players. If we do it now, at least they'll be players fit for the PL. All of this said, I'm mindful of Charnley's statement on the accounts a few weeks back. That didn't sound encouraging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26192 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Absolutely, but I think it's too much too soon to expect it this coming season. Doesn't it make sense to buy a bunch of players that can deliver you safety (12-15th)for £60m, then in the summer that follows buy a few more players that will deliver 8th-10th another £60m? Spreading £120m over two seasons, instead of gambling that £100m will deliver top half immediately? I think that's part of the reason we've looked a little disjointed, too many new players all coming in at once. Might be wrong. I think that £80m would be a good spend this summer and I think Rafa will be looking something similar. That should be enough to get us mid-table. And we can add as we need to after that. Anything from 12th up would be a good season for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19744 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Yeah, £80m or thereabouts should be enough to persuade Rafa to stay. Over to the fat cockney bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26192 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 That said, if we've £30m from Sissoko et al + another £30m from new player sales (de Jong, Saivet, championship players), + a £30m commitment from Ashley... maybe it's not too optimistic? That's a big if. If we have it then why wasn't Rafa allowed to spend it in January? My fear is that Ashley/Charnley have decided to use that money to cover operating costs for the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 But surely then that'd be tantamount to accepting that we're just going to go straight back down again? As a business decision, they need to ensure we stay up. I suppose the reality though, is that they know they won't be able to hold on to Rafa long term, and investing in playing staff for some sort of surge up the league to actually be in contention isn't something they consider to be important. While I've no doubt that Rafa could make their money work harder (in terms of getting the best out of players), they'll also know that he won't stay unless they genuinely want to kick on. So I suspect that Ashley and Charnley already know what the outcome is going to be. If we start hearing rumours of other managers being linked with us, we should perhaps assume he's off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13817 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Can't see why they wouldn't want to kick on tbh. It makes more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8950 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Who could/should we sell for sufficient sums to raise capital to limit the commitment from Ashley? Sels Anita (gone for nowt anyway isn't he?) Hanley Haidara Lazaar Colback Gouffran (end of contract?) Aarons Saivet de Jong Mitrovic (just not in Rafa's thoughts, is he?) Murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) Can't see why they wouldn't want to kick on tbh. It makes more sense. Well aye, but you could have argued the same point when we finished 5th under Pardew, and they took it as a sign that they didn't need to do anything for a couple of years. Edited April 25, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13817 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Hopefully they're just learning really slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26192 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Can't see why they wouldn't want to kick on tbh. It makes more sense. You're thinking as a football fan. It could be that Ashley is happy enough for us just to survive in the PL. It looks like the club was run in such a way that it isn't going to cost him a penny this time and as long as the club is self sufficient then that may be all that he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face 29 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Well aye, but you could have argued the same point when we finished 5th under Pardew, and they took it as a sign that they didn't need to do anything for a couple of years. We were reporting a loss then. We'll have £60m+ to spend next year after costs and i don't think Ashley will use it to repay debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essembeeofsunderland 811 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Rafa will already have his transfer targets in his mind.Lining them up will be a decision he has no control over.If he gets pissed about he'll want to be off ,asap,to get other transfer targets brought in with his new team.I don't know expect any uncertainty with his future to drag on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13817 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 You're thinking as a football fan. It could be that Ashley is happy enough for us just to survive in the PL. It looks like the club was run in such a way that it isn't going to cost him a penny this time and as long as the club is self sufficient then that may be all that he wants. Yeh you're right I suppose Mike Ashley doesn't think about the actual sporting aspect of owning a football club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lackie92 1 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I think we have a decent spine in the team in Clark, Shelvey, Ritchie and Gayle but even then you are talking signing 6-7 players for the first team alone. I would hate to go into the season still seeing cunts like Dummett, Anita, Gouffran, Diame etc on the team sheet....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 (edited) What good is a self sufficient football club to Ashley though? What would the point be? We became sustainable, finally, and then got relegated. Undoing many of the benefits of the sustainability. He'd be far better off aiming to get us to middle table looking upwards, with no chance of relegation. The only way that happens, is with continued and sustained investment in order to remain competitive. Edited April 25, 2017 by Rayvin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19744 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 I think we have a decent spine in the team in Clark, Shelvey, Ritchie and Gayle but even then you are talking signing 6-7 players for the first team alone. I would hate to go into the season still seeing cunts like Dummett, Anita, Gouffran, Diame etc on the team sheet....... ...and colback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19744 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Agree about the spine. I'm not sure lascelles should be automatic first choice next year. I'd like a ball playing defender to play alongside clark. Yedlin could maybe do a job, Dummet no. We're desperate for some creativity at number 10. Atsu I'm not convinced is up to being first choice left wing. Though I'd rather him there than gouffran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerbarton 24 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 It's also a lot easier to stay in profit now than last time we were promoted with the insane TV deals. I agree it makes sense for Ashley to invest in a team that can challenge for Europe and therefore has no risk of relegation. On the point of getting out of the Championship - got to say I'm delighted we're out. The quality of football has been woeful, the standard of officiating dreadful and the amount of bed wetting whenever a bad result comes along frustrating. I prefer the idea of us ploughing a furrow as underdogs in the PL than the amount of pressure on us to be promoted this season. Plus we won't have the added difficulty of every single team raising their game against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayvin 4949 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 It's also a lot easier to stay in profit now than last time we were promoted with the insane TV deals. I agree it makes sense for Ashley to invest in a team that can challenge for Europe and therefore has no risk of relegation. On the point of getting out of the Championship - got to say I'm delighted we're out. The quality of football has been woeful, the standard of officiating dreadful and the amount of bed wetting whenever a bad result comes along frustrating. I prefer the idea of us ploughing a furrow as underdogs in the PL than the amount of pressure on us to be promoted this season. Plus we won't have the added difficulty of every single team raising their game against us. Yeah if we keep Benitez his style of play should be perfect for next season as well. I think we'll have a good season if we can just manage to get a few players over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerbarton 24 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Yeah if we keep Benitez his style of play should be perfect for next season as well. I think we'll have a good season if we can just manage to get a few players over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fish 8950 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 Bed sheets not even out of their packets and people are already pissing on them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19744 Posted April 25, 2017 Share Posted April 25, 2017 i shall be willy waving like michelle barnier .... if rafa is backed and agrees to stay on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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