TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Gene_Clark said: here we have reason enough to redouble our efforts to eradicatr homophobia in the ground & make SJP a safe & inclusive space for those from the LGBT community Do you have evidence that it's an unsafe place? Load of shite. There'll be a big number of homosexuals safely attending week-in week-out. Or do you mean they should be able to go in leather hotpants and nobody take the piss? There'll always be a divvy or two in football crowds but they get told to stfu when they cross lines these days. They'll still be there irrspective of a LGBT group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayatollah Hermione 12733 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 The bloke next to me calls any opposition player who goes down after a tackle, a "fucking puff" so I can see how that might be off putting to our gay friends in the audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 4 minutes ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Do you have evidence that it's an unsafe place? Load of shite. There'll be a big number of homosexuals safely attending week-in week-out. Or do you mean they should be able to go in leather hotpants and nobody take the piss? There'll always be a divvy or two in football crowds but they get told to stfu when they cross lines these days. They'll still be there irrspective of a LGBT group. So as long as they're not actually open about their sexual preferences all is well? Gotcha! When do we start measuring noses again? Apart from taking the piss though, how do you reckon an openly homosexual player would be treated by (a not insignificant portion of) opposition fans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 hour ago, zico martin said: How do you know? The language and behaviour I've heard from football fans in my time suddenly doesn't encourage me to take my gay son to football anytime soon! I think if football clubs were scaring LGBT folk away it'd have been reported on. I guess we'll know how far we've come when we get some pros coming out. Which probably won't be anytime soon thanks to Qatar 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 1 minute ago, adios said: So as long as they're not actually open about their sexual preferences all is well? Gotcha! When do we start measuring noses again? Apart from taking the piss though, how do you reckon an openly homosexual player would be treated by (a not insignificant portion of) opposition fans? I think there'd be a few knuckle dragging cunts shouting stuff at first but I think these days enough people would tell them to shut the fuck up and it'd sort itself out. But I think that would happen irrespective of there being LGBT fan groups so it's not really addressing the issue. I'm with ewerk I'm not against the idea I just don't really see the benefits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 699 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 Gene, your illicit love affair with the semicolon offends me personally. Can you please look up how to use it correctly? Here's a helpful resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico martin 84 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 2 hours ago, ewerk said: It was a joke! Sorry yeah I realised after I said that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gloom 19714 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 I don't mind the LGBTs having a club, just as long as they keep it behind closed doors and don't flaunt it in public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene_Clark 12 Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 2 hours ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Do you have evidence that it's an unsafe place? Load of shite. There'll be a big number of homosexuals safely attending week-in week-out. Or do you mean they should be able to go in leather hotpants and nobody take the piss? There'll always be a divvy or two in football crowds but they get told to stfu when they cross lines these days. They'll still be there irrspective of a LGBT group. i think the subsequent responses, whereby posters recognise that homophobic comments are used & would be more prevalent if a player were to come out, suggest that your question has been answered? anecdotally, i have friends from the LGBT community who are season ticket holders & others who have been deterred from attending because of negative experiences. personally i'd hope that homophobic comments would be dealt with by stewards in the same way as racist language or other forms of hatespeech; remove, arrest, charge, convict, ban.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zico martin 84 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 9 minutes ago, Gene_Clark said: i think the subsequent responses, whereby posters recognise that homophobic comments are used & would be more prevalent if a player were to come out, suggest that your question has been answered? anecdotally, i have friends from the LGBT community who are season ticket holders & others who have been deterred from attending because of negative experiences. personally i'd hope that homophobic comments would be dealt with by stewards in the same way as racist language or other forms of hatespeech; remove, arrest, charge, convict, ban.... That last 'paragraph' is spot on. Being LGBT is a protected characteristic legally now just like race so should be dealt with just as seriously by the stewards. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 15 minutes ago, Gene_Clark said: i think the subsequent responses, whereby posters recognise that homophobic comments are used & would be more prevalent if a player were to come out, suggest that your question has been answered? anecdotally, i have friends from the LGBT community who are season ticket holders & others who have been deterred from attending because of negative experiences. personally i'd hope that homophobic comments would be dealt with by stewards in the same way as racist language or other forms of hatespeech; remove, arrest, charge, convict, ban.... Agreed, but I think you've got to be pretty thin skinned to get offended at someone calling a player feigning an injury a puff or whatever. I don't think I've ever witnessed any serious hate-filled anti-gay stuff at games though. The point is anyway that anybody that is still homophobic now, in 2017, isn't going to be enlightened by a LGBT supporters group. We're already in an era where genuine homophobia isn't tolerated. I'm speaking of my experience of SJP mind, I imagine some of the scummier places have less liberal crowds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene_Clark 12 Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 Just now, TheGingerQuiff said: Agreed, but I think you've got to be pretty thin skinned to get offended at someone calling a player feigning an injury a puff or whatever. I don't think I've ever witnessed any serious hate-filled anti-gay stuff at games though. The point is anyway that anybody that is still homophobic now, in 2017, isn't going to be enlightened by a LGBT supporters group. We're already in an era where genuine homophobia isn't tolerated. I'm speaking of my experience of SJP mind, I imagine some of the scummier places have less liberal crowds depends if you're part of the LGBT community & have endured homophobic abuse every day of your life i suppose. if you're just the kind of person who doesn't approve of any discriminatory abuse, then your response could probably be based on empathy, but as zico martin says, such comments are now illegal, so it has now been enshrined in law. i'd have no problem pointing the finger at anyone making discriminatory comments at the match.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 10 minutes ago, Gene_Clark said: depends if you're part of the LGBT community & have endured homophobic abuse every day of your life i suppose. if you're just the kind of person who doesn't approve of any discriminatory abuse, then your response could probably be based on empathy, but as zico martin says, such comments are now illegal, so it has now been enshrined in law. i'd have no problem pointing the finger at anyone making discriminatory comments at the match.... Hypothetically, two blokes at a match holding hands. Someone a few rows back starts hurling abuse at them. Who do you reckon would be most in danger of getting a slap? The couple or the lad shouting the abuse? The latter these days imo. I'd be genuinely shocked if anybody felt they couldn't go to a game because of their sexuality. Maybe I'm giving society too much credit I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelie 103 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Comedic or what? Went to the match and had a gay old time (oops) Went to a Olde-Time dance and was asked up for the Gay Gordons (oops) Referred to as a gay blade (oops) She was bright and gay (oops) Had a drink and was feeling gay (oops) Wasn't there a song with the line, "A bachelor gay am I" (oops) Merry and gay (oops) Why in the world did the word GAY come to be used to describe sexual orientation. Surely there was a word that did not conflict, Lesbian doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTF 6127 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Good to see you taking on the big issues in classic Noelie fashion. The merry merry king of our bush down under once had a gay life but times change and words are reappropriated routinely. There's no reason not to have this group I say, so if it makes any supporters of the club feel more comfortable then I'm right behind it (because I'm a pitcher not a catcher). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acrossthepond 699 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 4 hours ago, Gene_Clark said: i think the subsequent responses, whereby posters recognise that homophobic comments are used & would be more prevalent if a player were to come out, suggest that your question has been answered? anecdotally, i have friends from the LGBT community who are season ticket holders & others who have been deterred from attending because of negative experiences. personally i'd hope that homophobic comments would be dealt with by stewards in the same way as racist language or other forms of hatespeech; remove, arrest, charge, convict, ban.... See, that one's a colon. A semicolon separates independent but related clauses. The list "remove, arrest, charge, convict, ban" is a sentence fragment, not an independent clause of a sentence, so you use a colon. Please stop abusing the English language. Your pseudo-intellectual veneer suffers for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene_Clark 12 Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 7 hours ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Hypothetically, two blokes at a match holding hands. Someone a few rows back starts hurling abuse at them. Who do you reckon would be most in danger of getting a slap? The couple or the lad shouting the abuse? The latter these days imo. I'd be genuinely shocked if anybody felt they couldn't go to a game because of their sexuality. Maybe I'm giving society too much credit I don't know. who would be breaking the law? initially the person shouting homophobic abuse, then the person issuing the slap. two wrongs don't make a right; report the abuser & get them done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 1 minute ago, Gene_Clark said: who would be breaking the law? initially the person shouting homophobic abuse, then the person issuing the slap. two wrongs don't make a right; report the abuser & get them done You're missing my point entirely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5873 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 5 hours ago, Noelie said: Comedic or what? Went to the match and had a gay old time (oops) Went to a Olde-Time dance and was asked up for the Gay Gordons (oops) Referred to as a gay blade (oops) She was bright and gay (oops) Had a drink and was feeling gay (oops) Wasn't there a song with the line, "A bachelor gay am I" (oops) Merry and gay (oops) Why in the world did the word GAY come to be used to describe sexual orientation. Surely there was a word that did not conflict, Lesbian doesn't. I've literally never heard any old folks use the term gay in that context Classic Tory straw man argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene_Clark 12 Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 1 minute ago, TheGingerQuiff said: You're missing my point entirely as i've tried to say several times, i think only someone from the LGBT community can properly articulate why they would feel uncomfortable / unsafe at SJP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Dynamite 5873 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Why, as a straight man who hasn't been around these parts for years, have you decided to come back to argue with people about having an LBGTQ group at the club? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGingerQuiff 2412 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 3 minutes ago, Gene_Clark said: as i've tried to say several times, i think only someone from the LGBT community can properly articulate why they would feel uncomfortable / unsafe at SJP. Ohhh alright then. I'm still trying ti get my head around the Kick It Out campaign too. Being a white man I just can't begin to figure it out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene_Clark 12 Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 Just now, TheGingerQuiff said: Ohhh alright then. I'm still trying ti get my head around the Kick It Out campaign too. Being a white man I just can't begin to figure it out. i gather you're being mischievous here. ok, i see what you're saying in that any right minded person would agree that bigotry is wrong & has no place in society, not just the confines of SJP. totally agree and i think the racism argument has been won, in that we now have a ground where racism is totally unacceptable, as well as being illegal. possibly because of this, NUFC's support is starting to become more ethnically diverse, which is great because it reflects the demographics of our city these days. perhaps, in the world of football, the prevalent attitudes towards other sexual orientations isn't quite so inclusive, or perceived to be so. therefore, to help modernise & modify some blinkered attitudes, which may include intentional or unintentional homophobia, campaigns like the Rainbow Laces or Football v Homophobia are needed. finally, and i'm going to have to leave it here as i'm off out the door in 20 minutes, a group for LGBT fans may be of some use for that community at whatever level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewerk 26103 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 Has anyone actually seen anyone directly getting homophobic abuse at the ground? I'm not talking about calling opposition players poofs or fairies as these terms have developed somewhat from gay slurs into something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 13804 Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 12 hours ago, TheGingerQuiff said: Do you have evidence that it's an unsafe place? Load of shite. There'll be a big number of homosexuals safely attending week-in week-out. Or do you mean they should be able to go in leather hotpants and nobody take the piss? There'll always be a divvy or two in football crowds but they get told to stfu when they cross lines these days. They'll still be there irrspective of a LGBT group. If Scud can go in with a pink & blue Mohawk accompanied with a wonga top as well as jeans & sheaux then people should be able to wear hot pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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