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NJS
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Evolution should be taught in schools.

Religion should be taught in schools.

 

It's quite simple really - small-minded people just wiping off religion like that, then adopting evolution as "truth" and that religious theories are a load of rubbish. Doesn't seem stupid to me God creating the universe, and giving it freedom to allow evolution. Looks like some people ought to grow up...

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Theres no such thing as "religious theories" - thats the point - its all "beliefs" that you have to take on without question.

 

If you teach religion then you have to teach them all as they are all as equally as "valid" as each other - it would leave no room for anything else in the curriculum.

 

"Some people need to grow up"

 

Some people need to escape brainwashing and think.

 

BTW Evolution is as much "truth" as the earth orbiting the sun or the roman occupation of Britain - "theories" supported my masses of evidence.

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Well I'm not giving in, but any argument I put I am sure will be rubbished by people who "know better" - people who will criticise religion for the total idea of "false hope" and criticise the people, even if their small-minded attitudes make them much worse. I don't deny evolution being true, but there is no evidecne to say God does not exist, as that as where faith comes in to it. If you don't put your mind to having faith then obviously you won't have reason to believe. You call it brainwashing but once people reach a certain age they accept they feel that is true, and that is not because they were told about Adam and Eve when they 5 years old.

 

Also a reason for you to act in this manner is due to myself being outnumbered, so obviously if other people gave their views arguing you then you'd expand the argument a bit more, than how it is now. Obviously I am Christian but admit I do not know enough to argue but so do you by the looks of things, if you're resorting to a "It's all brainwashing. These morons should stop believeing in something that clearly doesn't exist!!!!" type of argument.

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I have never met a christian yet, nor a member of any other religion for that matter, who you can have a rational argument or discussion with either on matters of science or philosophy. Neither NJS or myself have said anything controversial or insulting (apart form me calling creationists lononys which I stick by :unsure:), yet you have to go into a major flounce! :lol:

 

Tbh, if you admit you are ignorant about this subject, you probably really shouldn't discuss it. You can keep your faith for all that I care, I just don't want it forced upon naive kids at school - it's bad enough that it happens in the church and home.

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I have never met a christian yet, nor a member of any other religion for that matter, who you can have a rational argument or discussion with either on matters of science or philosophy. Neither NJS or myself have said anything controversial or insulting (apart form me calling creationists lononys which I stick by :unsure:), yet you have to go into a major flounce!  :lol:

 

Tbh, if you admit you are ignorant about this subject, you probably really shouldn't discuss it. You can keep your faith for all that I care, I just don't want it forced upon naive kids at school - it's bad enough that it happens in the church and home.

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I admit I didn't quite mean it as in ignorant on the subject - more in a not able to go really in-depth with the argument than to keep it as we stand, being on my own here. I could go further into it certainly, but other people could do it better I am quite sure... so I gave my opinions of what has been said. That is all.

 

Now I have really confused you, and looks like I came acroess badly as well. I'm not angry at all.

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I have never met a christian yet, nor a member of any other religion for that matter, who you can have a rational argument or discussion with either on matters of science or philosophy. Neither NJS or myself have said anything controversial or insulting (apart form me calling creationists lononys which I stick by :unsure:), yet you have to go into a major flounce!  :lol:

 

Tbh, if you admit you are ignorant about this subject, you probably really shouldn't discuss it. You can keep your faith for all that I care, I just don't want it forced upon naive kids at school - it's bad enough that it happens in the church and home.

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I admit I didn't quite mean it as in ignorant on the subject - more in a not able to go really in-depth with the argument than to keep it as we stand, being on my own here. I could go further into it certainly, but other people could do it better I am quite sure... so I gave my opinions of what has been said. That is all.

 

Now I have really confused you, and looks like I came acroess badly as well. I'm not angry at all.

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There's another Christian unable to make a rational argument. You wanna get Toonelaide/Blaydon over here tbh ;)

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You call it brainwashing but once people reach a certain age they accept they feel that is true, and that is not because they were told about Adam and Eve when they 5 years old.

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As I've said before I really want to have respect for people on this but I find the irrationality immensely frustrating - apologies if I go too far.

 

On the point above I disagree the strongest. If all religious "instruction" was prohibited until people were adults a miniscule number would believe compared to how many do now. I accept that "thinking" people can come to a position of faith at any time but for the vast majority the indoctrination from birth is the key. This is why I feel so strongly about religion's position in schools.

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Anyone heard Bill Hicks' bit about the lack of mention of dinosaurs in the bible?  Canny funny like.

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The thought of "God fucking with you" is one that has crossed my mind :lol: - because I know if I was him I'd have loved to have thought of it.

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Religion is fine to be taught in religious studies, and even that is not taught as fact. It is generally in secondary school focussing on morals, views, beliefs etc, not creationism and how we managed to get here.

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Spot someone who didn't go to a catholic school which I assume will also be true of all the wonderful new faith schools of other colours - we were informed (in "reasonable" terms) that the bible was 100% the word of god and therefore indisputable.

 

We also were taught proper history/science but nobody had the sense or courage to dispute the contradictions.

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Yup, very good point. Religion was taught as fact, the bible is fact, everyone who appeared in it lived and the stories actually happened when I went to Catholic school despite us also being taught evolution as fact. I imagine it's still taught this way. When I used to find this most ammusing wasn't in Science, but in Geography. Going from an RE lesson where you've just been told for fact the earth was created a few thousand years ago by a bored bloke, then into Geography where you're being told how Oil and Coal were made from fossils and trees millions of years old... :lol:

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Evolution should be taught in schools.

Religion should be taught in schools.

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But the intelligent design debate is about teaching religion in science class. Teach science in science class, and teach about religion in philosophy and RE class.

 

Intelligent design is not a scientific theory like evolutionary theory, because you can't test or observe it. It's a belief. To try and force it into science class is an insult to real science, and it's also an insult to religion to claim that something as spiritual as the answer to the ultimate questions of the existance of a higher power can be explained in something as base as a science textbook.

Edited by BlueStar
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Even with my attitude I found the Horizon a while ago about art fakes in Israel shocking when it stated that there is absolutely no physical evendence for any event in the bible.

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what gets me is the narrow minded standpoint occupied by religious folk from all sides of the spectrum. What makes their particular faith absolute?

 

they seem to be based on a code of conduct which is similar throughout the religions, and they have some bridges (in the shapes of particular people, or events)... so it seems like they have similar beginnings..

 

if this is the case how can one be true and one be false? how can one be the truth and the other false idoltry?

 

what makes the Bible false and the Koran true? or the other way round?

they both are massivley flawed as historical documents and yet are both desrcfibed as historical fact.

 

now I don't doubt the existence of some of the characters and story-themes in the books, but I have severe issue with the more fantastic elements of the script.

 

I think that there was a guy called Jesus who had some good ideas, a nice framework around which a healthy prosperous and contributary life could be built. I don't think he was anything celestial however.

 

 

We bracket Hercules as fantasy, but his labours are explicible "miracles", his feats equally so and his lineage easily dismissed as ignorant speculation or propaganda. Why is it abhorrent to do the same with Jesus?

 

a son of a god? can do things "impossible" to normal folk? labours which seem outside of the boundary of mortals?

 

 

Religion?

 

it's a nice idea but a horribly corrupted one

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I think that there was a guy called Jesus who had some good ideas, a nice framework around which a healthy prosperous and contributary life could be built.

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What you basing that on, the Bible? :lol:

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I'd echo GF's comments about the "arrogance" of the different "gangs" - to say the god of the jews is "the one" but the greek and roman (or Aztec or Hindu etc etc) gods are "supersticious nonsense" beggars belief.

 

All Gods are products of individual tribes yearning for answers - nowt wrong with asking the questions but we should have grown out of them imo.

 

I was just thinking the other day how different the world could have been if Alexander hadn't died so young (possibly preventing the rise of Rome) or if the Mongols hadn't turned back from Europe - the "indisputable truths" of religion are actually shaped by history and politics.

Edited by NJS
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Religious architecture tends to be nice, so it's not all bad I suppose.

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Absolutely - one of the things I miss about European football is the hungover tours of the cathedrals of Europe.

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Religious architecture tends to be nice, so it's not all bad I suppose.

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Absolutely - one of the things I miss about European football is the hungover tours of the cathedrals of Europe.

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You can keep them foreign cathedrals! Nowt beats Durham. :lol:

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I'd echo GF's comments about the "arrogance" of the different "gangs" - to say the god of the jews is "the one" but the greek and roman (or Aztec or Hindu etc etc)  gods are "supersticious nonsense" beggars belief.

 

All Gods are products of individual tribes yearning for answers - nowt wrong with asking the questions but we should have grown out of them imo.

 

I was just thinking the other day how different the world could have been if Alexander hadn't died so young (possibly preventing the rise of Rome) or if the Mongols hadn't turned back from Europe - the "indisputable truths" of religion are actually shaped by history and politics.

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In Islam, doesnt Mohammed say "I am the final prophet!"???

 

Clever little trick that, like.

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Religious architecture tends to be nice, so it's not all bad I suppose.

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I think it runs deeper than that. Think about how devoted people had to be to build these things, the same applies for scientific progress. Of course in an enlightened world load of what is written in the bible is historical rubbish. But there is far more in it than that, similes etc. They are the backbone of christian ethics that - like it or not - during the course of history has become the foundation of the thinking of what is seen as the western civilsation. It has formed our culture (and not only by architecture), our law etc. and even to a certain extent the progress of natural science (and hindered it often enough too). We like to see our states to be secular and the outer appearence seems to be. But the roots are still religious and intimately connected with Christianity. That's why I don't like to see it totally banned from schools, but it has to be voluntary.

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Religious architecture tends to be nice, so it's not all bad I suppose.

85316[/snapback]

 

I think it runs deeper than that. Think about how devoted people had to be to build these things, the same applies for scientific progress. Of course in an enlightened world load of what is written in the bible is historical rubbish. But there is far more in it than that, similes etc. They are the backbone of christian ethics that - like it or not - during the course of history has become the foundation of the thinking of what is seen as the western civilsation. It has formed our culture (and not only by architecture), our law etc. and even to a certain extent the progress of natural science (and hindered it often enough too). We like to see our states to be secular and the outer appearence seems to be. But the roots are still religious and intimately connected with Christianity. That's why I don't like to see it totally banned from schools, but it has to be voluntary.

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Good post that. Also, I find it absolutely incredible what people used to be able to biuld. I was echo Renton's comments about Durham as well. It's actually Romanesque in style, pre-dating all the great Gothic Cathedrals of Europe. There is a theory that the stonemasons were either Muslims or trained by Muslims, since in Christian terms at least, it was well ahead of its time. Also, from certain angles, some of the interior looks somewhat Mosque-like I reckon.

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Religious architecture tends to be nice, so it's not all bad I suppose.

85316[/snapback]

 

I think it runs deeper than that. Think about how devoted people had to be to build these things, the same applies for scientific progress. Of course in an enlightened world load of what is written in the bible is historical rubbish. But there is far more in it than that, similes etc. They are the backbone of christian ethics that - like it or not - during the course of history has become the foundation of the thinking of what is seen as the western civilsation. It has formed our culture (and not only by architecture), our law etc. and even to a certain extent the progress of natural science (and hindered it often enough too). We like to see our states to be secular and the outer appearence seems to be. But the roots are still religious and intimately connected with Christianity. That's why I don't like to see it totally banned from schools, but it has to be voluntary.

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Good post that. Also, I find it absolutely incredible what people used to be able to biuld. I was echo Renton's comments about Durham as well. It's actually Romanesque in style, pre-dating all the great Gothic Cathedrals of Europe. There is a theory that the stonemasons were either Muslims or trained by Muslims, since in Christian terms at least, it was well ahead of its time. Also, from certain angles, some of the interior looks somewhat Mosque-like I reckon.

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Parts of it's architecture are Gothic though n'est-ce pas? Some of the windows are arent they??

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