Joelinton

[The Fish 8944]

11 hours ago, Dr Gloom said:

Joelinton has been our best player since the takeover. 

You're not wrong. 

 

But, some people still see him as a failed striker, when in truth he's never been a striker. He was just forced into the wrong position, in a broken system, under an incompetent dinosaur. Now we've an actual manager, who has actual ideas of how to play, he looks 10 times the player he was. Credit to him for getting outside help because he sure as shit wasn't getting it at the club when the Steves ruled the roost.

[NJS 3956]

Shit manager not withstanding, he was played on the left or right of a three on numerous occasions and was still absolute dogshit - any notion that he always played as a striker is blatant revisionism. 

 

I'm not fooled by 4 or 5 games where he's actually put a few tackles in - he still can't pass more than five yards and his finishing is unacceptable for a professional footballer in any position at any higher level. 

[Dr Gloom 19719]

Just now, NJS said:

Shit manager not withstanding, he was played on the left or right of a three on numerous occasions and was still absolute dogshit - any notion that he always played as a striker is blatant revisionism. 

 

I'm not fooled by 4 or 5 games where he's actually put a few tackles in - he still can't pass more than five yards and his finishing is unacceptable for a professional footballer in any position at any higher level. 

 

harsh.

 

he's carried our midfield at times since howe reinvented him in this deeper role. i agree that he couldn't strike the skin off a rice pudding, but i love a redemption story and he's been unrecognisable from the past two seasons.  

[The Fish 8944]

7 minutes ago, NJS said:

Shit manager not withstanding, he was played on the left or right of a three on numerous occasions and was still absolute dogshit - any notion that he always played as a striker is blatant revisionism. 

 

I'm not fooled by 4 or 5 games where he's actually put a few tackles in - he still can't pass more than five yards and his finishing is unacceptable for a professional footballer in any position at any higher level. 

19/20 of the 38 games he played in the league 34 were at CF (89.5%)

20/21 of the 31 games he played in the league 23 were at CF (74%)

21/22 of the 20 games he's played in the league 6 have been at CF (30%)

 

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by The Fish

[Gemmill 34157]

10 minutes ago, The Fish said:

19/20 of the 38 games he played in the league 34 were at CF (89.5%)

20/21 of the 31 games he played in the league 23 were at CF (74%)

21/22 of the 20 games he's played in the league 6 have been at CF (30%)

 

 

 

 

[Ayatollah Hermione 12733]

12 minutes ago, The Fish said:

19/20 of the 38 games he played in the league 34 were at CF (89.5%)

20/21 of the 31 games he played in the league 23 were at CF (74%)

21/22 of the 20 games he's played in the league 6 have been at CF (30%)

 

 

So, by my quick maths, that means he played about 15/16 games wide left which is more than enough sample size  

[Dr Gloom 19719]

12 minutes ago, The Fish said:

19/20 of the 38 games he played in the league 34 were at CF (89.5%)

20/21 of the 31 games he played in the league 23 were at CF (74%)

21/22 of the 20 games he's played in the league 6 have been at CF (30%)

 

 

 

 

[Alex 30224]

He definitely looked better (not good though) when he played wide. He was still playing in a struggling side. I’m still on the fence about him even in a deeper midfield role but he’s been the least of our worries since Howe arrived. 

[Alex 30224]

I would also say that when he was eventually played somewhere other than CF his confidence was shot to bits 

[Dr Gloom 19719]

he's been man of the match in at least 4 games since howe came in. 

 

i'm not sure about his position in the side for the rest of the season now bruno has come on, who looks like a massive upgrade in that role.

 

if we play with a midfield three and wood up front on his own, we really need one of those three to get up and support the striker. i don't see howe dropping shelvey, now he has bruno to do some of his running for him, so joelinton is  going to have to playing a more advanced role, or perhaps willock or almiron comes in. 

[Dr Gloom 19719]

nice to have options though and not to be thinking about hayden or longstaff starting games 

[The Fish 8944]

4 minutes ago, Ayatollah Hermione said:

So, by my quick maths, that means he played about 15/16 games wide left which is more than enough sample size  

 

However, he hasn't been awful in each of those games where he didn't play as a striker, I'd say he's performed well in around 7 or 8 of them across the seasons. That leaves 7/89 or 7% of his performances have been away from CF AND poor.

 

So, statistically NJS is talking bollocks, that's just maths.

[NJS 3956]

Have you got a stat for how many times he's fallen over trying to shoot or how many times his "shots" have barely travelled 5 yards?

 

I don't mind a redemption story and have loved seeing him get stuck in but the way people have been assuming he's going to be the mainstay of the team even now we have and will signed/sign much better players is a bit daft imo. 

 

I saw people putting him in the "Lingard" role in that planned team behind the striker which is laughable. 

[Dr Gloom 19719]

it still feels like we paid massively over the odds for him but there is a player in there.

 

if i were gemmill's crush specs gonzales i'd say he's a number 8 rather than a number 10 

[Gemmill 34157]

He'll always be a perfect 10 to me. And Joelinton too. 

[essembeeofsunderland 811]

During all those games playing as a central striker,his game never improved 1%.If he played in the same position against Everton,I can guarantee he would be as shit as the last time he played in that position.His disinterest in heading the ball would still be apparent,as would his ‘I don’t give a fuck that 52,000 fans are watching me not give a fuck’ attitude.89 games under his belt with at least 80 of them where he’s been absolute shit.One good game and two or three decent halves during his purple patch.BUJ7.

[Dr Gloom 19719]

7 minutes ago, essembeeofsunderland said:

During all those games playing as a central striker,his game never improved 1%.If he played in the same position against Everton,I can guarantee he would be as shit as the last time he played in that position.His disinterest in heading the ball would still be apparent,as would his ‘I don’t give a fuck that 52,000 fans are watching me not give a fuck’ attitude.89 games under his belt with at least 80 of them where he’s been absolute shit.One good game and two or three decent halves during his purple patch.BUJ7.

[Howay 12447]

He’s fine for this season, and then a squad player going forward but IMO unless he suddenly improves his on the ball ability he’s not good enough for where we’d aim to be mid-long term. He’s strong, quick, hardworking, and has done a good job giving energy and determination in CM while lazy bastards like Longstaff and Shelvey just shrugged. But on the ball he’s immensely limited, because of his likability due to working hard people tend to shrug it off when he whiffs chances in games now when in the past they’d be frustrated. 
 

I understand where NJS is coming from, I’ve seen people putting Joelinton in the front 3 or behind a striker in these “this is how Newcastle line up” but honestly man he’s not good enough on the ball for that, again maybe he will improve but we’ve seen enough of him on the ball to know he’s not exactly a brilliant passer, and his finishing is poor (if I’m being kind). I agree he’s not a striker, he’s more than proven that, he’s shown he can be a PL player as a water carrier and is adept at breaking up play - but in the summer if we can get a better quality defensive midfielder to take that role for him then we should. 

[Howay 12447]

3 hours ago, Alex said:

He definitely looked better (not good though) when he played wide. He was still playing in a struggling side. I’m still on the fence about him even in a deeper midfield role but he’s been the least of our worries since Howe arrived. 

Just saw this, aye this is where I am too. He’s doing a job, and he’s preferred to Longstaff/Hayden etc, but I’m still not sold on him. Kind of similar to Fraser for me, except I think replacing Fraser would be priority for me over improving Joelinton if I had to pick. 

[Howmanheyman 26590]

2 minutes ago, Xa9as said:

Had a lot of Jonas vibes for me when played wide. Jonas had the privilege of actually playing with footballers though, and had someone like Cabaye to pass inside to or Santon that could control a ball and pass the half way line - unlike having to pass to Isaac Hayden or Paul Dummett/Lewis who treat the ball like a bomb.

Well they're from the same continent.

[Howmanheyman 26590]

1 minute ago, Xa9as said:

 

Can't see Joe playing in a World Cup for Brazil mind

 

Agree.

[Alex 30224]

Jonas, though not without his limitations was a much better winger and far from terrible 

[The Fish 8944]

48 minutes ago, essembeeofsunderland said:

During all those games playing as a central striker,his game never improved 1%.If he played in the same position against Everton,I can guarantee he would be as shit as the last time he played in that position.His disinterest in heading the ball would still be apparent,as would his ‘I don’t give a fuck that 52,000 fans are watching me not give a fuck’ attitude.89 games under his belt with at least 80 of them where he’s been absolute shit.One good game and two or three decent halves during his purple patch.BUJ7.

 

Again, this is not true. For all the criticism you can lay at his stumbly feet, 'not giving a shit' isn't one of them. 

[The Fish 8944]

2 minutes ago, Alex said:

Jonas, though not without his limitations was a much better winger and far from terrible 

Get more Jonas vibes from Almiron than anyone else in the squad. Almiron is decent at progressing the ball but is unlikely to score or provide an assist. Just like Jonas. He might win you a freekick, or something though.

[Alex 30224]

11 minutes ago, Xa9as said:

 

Playing today he would suit a wing back system. Never scored, never really created anything, forever played inside. He was a safe option on the ball, but never had any sort of offensive threat to him. Maybe should have been played on the right a bit more, but from what I remember Pardew always played him on the left to basically hold down a side. Would forever be shown inside killing every attack he was involved in, not helped with Santon playing inside too.

 

If Jonas had to play in recent sides we've had that have been bereft of talent like HBA, Ba, Cabaye, Colo he'd be getting slaughted by fans. 7 goals, 11 assists in 154 PL apperances - 11 key chances created, cross accuracy of 18%, only ever played 51 through balls in over 150 games. He was pants. https://www.premierleague.com/players/3683/Jonás-Gutiérrez/stats

Yeah. You’re wrong though