Coronavirus

[Alex 30247]

5 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Piers Morgan is a horrible bastard, but he's the only person in the media I've heard properly call out Hancock, Gove and Boris on how poorly they've managed the pandemic. He's just absolutely slaughtered Gove to his face this morning  

Aye, well they only go on there because they’ve been shamed into it because of the amount of viewers and how the government refused to go on for so long. You’re right though. Given how badly Coronavirus and Brexit has been handled it’s a damning indictment of the state of journalism that he’s one of the few who’ll do his job properly. The BBC focuses more on Trump’s handling of the pandemic than Johnson and Co.’s 

[PaddockLad 14528]

5 minutes ago, Kid Dynamite said:

Piers Morgan is a horrible bastard, but he's the only person in the media I've heard properly call out Hancock, Gove and Boris on how poorly they've managed the pandemic. He's just absolutely slaughtered Gove to his face this morning  

What did Morgan shout at him? Are you any the wiser about anything after the exchange?  When the interviewer thinks it’s all about himself and the interviewee is trying to avoid scrutiny the interview would seem to me to be largely fuckin pointless. I haven’t seen though so shouldn’t really comment...oops...

 

 

[Alex 30247]

It’s always about Piers Morgan but I think my point was it’s jarring he’s one of the only ones prepared to ask incredibly incompetent politicians anything like hard questions or to put them on the spot. Kuenssberg and Marr might as well be working for number 10

[PaddockLad 14528]

14 minutes ago, Alex said:

It’s always about Piers Morgan but I think my point was it’s jarring he’s one of the only ones prepared to ask incredibly incompetent politicians anything like hard questions or to put them on the spot. Kuenssberg and Marr might as well be working for number 10

I do agree to a large extent but when they eventually got Hancock on last month or whenever it was it was Morgan shouting at him for 5 mins about stuff from months ago. 
 

Tbf, this morning was reasonably enlightening compared with that...the second video shows Gove shifting very uncomfortably and giving his shortest answer to a question ever

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by PaddockLad

[Monkeys Fist 38571]

I’d have a tiny shred of respect for them* if just once, one of these lickspittle fuckers would just admit that they got something wrong. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* I wouldn’t, they’re rancid scum, but you get my point. 

[Howmanheyman 26622]

37 minutes ago, Alex said:

Aye, well they only go on there because they’ve been shamed into it because of the amount of viewers and how the government refused to go on for so long. You’re right though. Given how badly Coronavirus and Brexit has been handled it’s a damning indictment of the state of journalism that he’s one of the few who’ll do his job properly. The BBC focuses more on Trump’s handling of the pandemic than Johnson and Co.’s 

Aye, the BBC news are fucking great at looking at other countries problems in a critical way at times but then it goes all North Korea at the ruling government here in comparison. 

[Renton 17628]

9 hours ago, Kid Dynamite said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/08/oxford-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-has-70-efficacy-full-trial-data-shows
 

Not a good sign if you're having to pool data from different trials to get to 70% efficacy. Little evidence in over 55s and ineffective in nearly a 3rd of patients 

 

Compared with nearly every drug or medical device used in the NHS, that is a huge amount of evidence to support the use of this vaccine. I've just downloaded the paper and will look at it later. One point of interest, there were 10 serious cases of covid, with 1 death, all in the control group. Also there is no safety signals of concern at all from what I can tell. 

[Rayvin 4949]

23 minutes ago, Monkeys Fist said:

I’d have a tiny shred of respect for them* if just once, one of these lickspittle fuckers would just admit that they got something wrong. 

 

I don't understand why it's so hard. It's not like their whole careers would fall apart if they admit getting something wrong ffs, I mean there's no consequence to anything they do anyway. 

 

But it's not just politicians, people in general in this country are now so fucking precious that they can't handle being wrong about anything. I've repeatedly read comments in the Guardian in the past few days (the Guardian is now pro-Brexit incidentally, following Labour into the breach, and therefore churning out articles about how the mess we find ourselves in is all the fault of Remainers - presumably having identified that to get leavers back on side, they need to start indulging in the same make believe reality as their hoped for audience) stating that angry Remainers who constantly criticise and point out the flaws of the Brexiteer arguments are "the reason" this is all happening.

 

And like, just fucking think about that statement. There is a large body of people in this country so fucking delicate that if someone calls them out for being wrong, calls them stupid for believing something completely devoid of evidence be it COVID related, Brexit related, whatever - they're so weak that if this happens they immediately dig their heels in and vote for it anyway out of what... spite? And this is what these people themselves are telling us they're doing. If you vote for something because the other side called you stupid for holding some demonstrably stupid views, then you're not a rational adult who should vote, you're a child.

 

And I'm sorry to say the entire right wing of the country is now stained with this weak, pitiful childishness.

[Billy Whitehurst 772]

1 hour ago, Renton said:

 

Compared with nearly every drug or medical device used in the NHS, that is a huge amount of evidence to support the use of this vaccine. I've just downloaded the paper and will look at it later. One point of interest, there were 10 serious cases of covid, with 1 death, all in the control group. Also there is no safety signals of concern at all from what I can tell. 

So if it is 70% effective, it leads to much weaker symptoms should you still catch COVID, it’s cheap and easy to store and it prevents asymptomatic infection (so helps to provide herd immunity), that means it is pretty fucking good?

 

I’m only asking as you know way more about these things way more than the rest of us.

[Alex 30247]

1 hour ago, Rayvin said:

 

I don't understand why it's so hard. It's not like their whole careers would fall apart if they admit getting something wrong ffs, I mean there's no consequence to anything they do anyway. 

 

But it's not just politicians, people in general in this country are now so fucking precious that they can't handle being wrong about anything. I've repeatedly read comments in the Guardian in the past few days (the Guardian is now pro-Brexit incidentally, following Labour into the breach, and therefore churning out articles about how the mess we find ourselves in is all the fault of Remainers - presumably having identified that to get leavers back on side, they need to start indulging in the same make believe reality as their hoped for audience) stating that angry Remainers who constantly criticise and point out the flaws of the Brexiteer arguments are "the reason" this is all happening.

 

And like, just fucking think about that statement. There is a large body of people in this country so fucking delicate that if someone calls them out for being wrong, calls them stupid for believing something completely devoid of evidence be it COVID related, Brexit related, whatever - they're so weak that if this happens they immediately dig their heels in and vote for it anyway out of what... spite? And this is what these people themselves are telling us they're doing. If you vote for something because the other side called you stupid for holding some demonstrably stupid views, then you're not a rational adult who should vote, you're a child.

 

And I'm sorry to say the entire right wing of the country is now stained with this weak, pitiful childishness.

Yeah, no remainers have been involved in all the various iterations of the talks to get a deal with the EU. Neither have they been involved in formulating transition agreements. They haven’t been part of the government’s preparations for importing goods, exporting them or control of the borders in general. They haven’t promised the Earth then claimed it was never the case when it was clear those promises were completely baseless. They haven’t repeatedly lied. They haven’t been prepared to throw away everything in order to protect a tiny, economically virtually meaningless (and ultimately unsustainable) fishing industry. They haven’t ignored facts and favoured jingoistic notions of British exceptionalism. They haven’t kept changing their minds about why they voted the way they did and they haven’t kept moving the goalposts. They didn’t want this and haven’t taken responsibility for it and they haven’t childishly blamed the people who aren’t responsible for it. Clearly to blame for all this having done nothing to get Brexit done

Edited December 9, 2020 by Alex

[NJS 3960]

Owen Jones has a point about remainers - during the indicative votes it was the liberals, the snp and the change uk MPs who abstained or voted against various option that would have been palatable to most including various CU options. 

 

But the purity of holding out for another ref became the mantra that was just as extreme in someone like Swinson's case that any kind of compromise was lost. 

 

 

[Alex 30247]

Agreed but it’s important to make the distinction between the politicians involved and the millions of members of the public who had fuck all to do with it. There wasn’t much compromise or common sense on either side in the House of Commons as they were all more concerned with their own egos and ambitions. 

[Rayvin 4949]

7 minutes ago, NJS said:

Owen Jones has a point about remainers - during the indicative votes it was the liberals, the snp and the change uk MPs who abstained or voted against various option that would have been palatable to most including various CU options. 

 

But the purity of holding out for another ref became the mantra that was just as extreme in someone like Swinson's case that any kind of compromise was lost. 

 

 

 

There was enough backing from pro-remain MPs on at least two of Theresa May's deal submissions that had the ERG gone in for it, it would have passed. It has always, always, always been the hard Brexiteers who have forced us to this point. Coupled with Theresa May's own total inadequacy in refusing to seek cross party consensus early on. She was repeatedly asked to include other parties, by the other parties. She was repeatedly asked to include protections for workers rights and other useful and pragmatic provisions by Labour. She refused time and time again because the only thing that mattered to her was the electability of the Tory party.

 

As Alex rightly says, the remain side has had literally no control or input on this entire process - we became increasingly desperate as it became clear that we were being increasingly railroaded into a very hard Brexit. And I can guarantee you that the only reason Owen Jones wrote that abortion of an article was in an attempt to 'reach out' to the Brexity red wall - which is indeed Labour's entire strategy at this point. He doesn't believe a single word of what he wrote I'll wager (at the very least I hope).

 

Swinson wasn't an honest actor in this whatsoever and I have no confidence that she cared about anything beyond power and redeeming the LDs into something viable - but she was to some extent forced into that position by Labour taking a more nuanced approach. There was, however, never any attempt whatsoever at meaningful compromise from the Brexit side of this debate. There was, and I can clearly remember it in parliament, attempts at this from the Remain side.

 

And I would say, for the record, that a customs union only approach is something that all of us would have considered a pretty hard Brexit at the outset. Norway would have been the sensible approach that everyone could have gotten behind. May went to an extreme from the outset however.

[ewerk 26189]

This Owen Jones?

 

[Rayvin 4949]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/07/remainers-britain-soft-brexit

 

"Hard Remainers wouldn't accept a soft Brexit, and now we're all paying the price"

 

Yes, that one

 

The fucking pillock.

[NJS 3960]

He changed his mind - don't see anything wrong with that. 

 

Throughout the whole push for a second ref the strongest advocates refused to ever consider the polls which weren't moving and refused to contemplate what would happen if they lost again because they just wouldn't accept that most leavers simply weren't budging. 

 

As I said they point blank refused to consider a compromise at any point. 

 

I don't think they're as guilty as the erg mob or Johnson but they aren't innocent either. 

[ewerk 26189]

24 minutes ago, NJS said:

He changed his mind - don't see anything wrong with that. 

 

Throughout the whole push for a second ref the strongest advocates refused to ever consider the polls which weren't moving and refused to contemplate what would happen if they lost again because they just wouldn't accept that most leavers simply weren't budging. 

 

As I said they point blank refused to consider a compromise at any point. 

 

I don't think they're as guilty as the erg mob or Johnson but they aren't innocent either. 

 

The numbers were moving though, in 2019 Remain had a ten point lead.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-on-britains-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote-2/

[Renton 17628]

4 hours ago, Billy Whitehurst said:

So if it is 70% effective, it leads to much weaker symptoms should you still catch COVID, it’s cheap and easy to store and it prevents asymptomatic infection (so helps to provide herd immunity), that means it is pretty fucking good?

 

I’m only asking as you know way more about these things way more than the rest of us.

 

That's my take, yes. It looks like it's very effective at preventing hospitalisation and death, which surely are the most important outcomes. It is 70% effective at preventing milder disease. It's not known if it reduces transmission but I'd bet my house it does. It's cheap and can be stored in a fridge. Each vaccine will have their place but this one is massively important imo. 

[Renton 17628]

3 hours ago, NJS said:

Owen Jones has a point about remainers - during the indicative votes it was the liberals, the snp and the change uk MPs who abstained or voted against various option that would have been palatable to most including various CU options. 

 

But the purity of holding out for another ref became the mantra that was just as extreme in someone like Swinson's case that any kind of compromise was lost. 

 

 

 

The CU options were and are utter shite, they won't solve the friction problems that will wreck our economy. In a 52 48 referendum people should have had the option to vote on whether we should stay in the SM or not, something promised by many Brexiters including Hannon and Farage. But instead we went straight down the hard Brexit route from day one.

 

I remember you called me a "hard" remainer, even though aftwe the referendum I wanted to leave the EU but retain EEA status through EFTA or similar. Seems if you're not a hard core Brexiter you have to be a have to be an "ultra remainer" then?

 

The reality is the country has undergone a de facto coup facilitated by Brexit, to even think of blaming remainers is ludicrous.

 

Leavers lied in the referendum.

Leavers won the referendum.

Leavers got in a PM who unilaterally went for hard Brexit.

Leavers won a GE.

Leavers negotiated the WA.

Leavers voted against the WA.

Leavers selected the king of leavers as PM.

Leaver PM expunged the tory party of all remainers.

Leaver PM negotiated another WA, made MPs swear an oath on it.

Leavers won another GE by a landslide.

Leavers did trade deal, or not, as case may be.

 

Yet its all remainers fault! 😜

 

 

Owen Jones is a snivelling shit fishing for bites btw. Can't  stand him. 

[Renton 17628]

The worst thing is, we all knew the narrative would be for Brexiteers to blame remainers when Brwxit turns to shit. To see the Guardian actively support this narrative is.pretty depressing. They can forget any donations from me now. 

[Alex 30247]

Owen Jones is too desperate to appear reasonable for me to take him seriously. Pick a side, you soft little cunt 

[Billy Whitehurst 772]

1 minute ago, Alex said:

Owen Jones is too desperate to appear reasonable for me to take him seriously. Pick a side, you soft little cunt 

 

Amen to that. 

 

He has a lot of interesting things to say, most of which I agree with. Unfortunately, he let’s himself down by saying everything in the most irritating and condescending manner possible. 

 

He could be telling me that I’d won the lottery and I’ll still want spark the little fucker out.

[Dr Gloom 19738]

21 minutes ago, Alex said:

Owen Jones is too desperate to appear reasonable for me to take him seriously. Pick a side, you soft little cunt 

[Alex 30247]

Jones should have a YouTube fight with Darren Grimes. 

[Meenzer 13983]

Winner meets Mayweather. Loser too.