LeazesMag 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Shepherd's appointment of Souness is the only bad call he's made, there is really no hope for you at all. 93600[/snapback] Are you trying to say that Dalglish and Gullit weren't trophy winning managers that ambitious clubs don't appoint ? How much more ambitious can you get than appointing someone who has won the league title with 2 different clubs...of course you told us beforehand that that wasn't good enough for us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Shepherd's appointment of Souness is the only bad call he's made, there is really no hope for you at all. 93600[/snapback] One bad appointment doesn't make a bad chairman! 93695[/snapback] Ambitious chairman appoint managers with winning track records, correct ? There is no point cracking on with this if all you do is apply hindsight, and don't answer the questions I asked.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Shepherd's appointment of Souness is the only bad call he's made, there is really no hope for you at all. 93600[/snapback] One bad appointment doesn't make a bad chairman! 93695[/snapback] Ambitious chairman appoint managers with winning track records, correct ? There is no point cracking on with this if all you do is apply hindsight, and don't answer the questions I asked.... 93799[/snapback] Leazes, you reckon Shepherd has only made one bad appointment. You're wrong. Incidentally, how else would you like anyone to assess Shepherd's reign or that of the managers he employed other than by using hindsight? Selective foresight, as employed by yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Got a wave from Deadly Doug on Sarrida as he went past in his Roller. The man is clearly a gent and ten times the bloke Shepherd is. 93566[/snapback] Doug Ellis ? 93580[/snapback] How many people do you know referred to as "Deadly Doug"? 93585[/snapback] Hall. BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Doug Ellis is a better chairman than Shepherd, there is really no hope for you at all. I do notice that no-one contests my comment that we are the 3rd top spenders ie 3rd most ambitious club in the premiership in the last decade, nor the question that HTL has asked to name Newcastle United chairman who tapped the clubs fanbase and has been a better chairman than Shepherd too, other than John Hall If no one can give sensible and correct answers to these questions, there really is no need to debate it further. Case closed and proved. 93587[/snapback] There's a serious problem somewhere if the 3rd most ambitious, and the 3rd highest spenders, are far from being the 3rd most successful. Anyway, aren't we the 4th highest spenders? Behind Chelsea, Man United and Liverpool? 93596[/snapback] Hmmm...not that far, at least before fuckwit came in, who a lot of people defended....so what is the reason for their lack of football knowledge ??????? 2nd or 3rd biggest pre-Abramovic, 3rd or 4th since. Although there won't be much between us and Liverpool taking into account what we have spent on the stadium which they haven't. Even assuming it is 4th, hardly unambitious, mediocre, shite etc is it....as I have said before, if you people are going to say this board is crap you should be able to state a case fairly easily for many many others to be better, but you can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Shepherd's appointment of Souness is the only bad call he's made, there is really no hope for you at all. 93600[/snapback] Are you trying to say that Dalglish and Gullit weren't trophy winning managers that ambitious clubs don't appoint ? 93798[/snapback] No, I'm saying they were failures and therefore, bad appointments. Do you think they were a success? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Shepherd's appointment of Souness is the only bad call he's made, there is really no hope for you at all. 93600[/snapback] One bad appointment doesn't make a bad chairman! 93695[/snapback] Ambitious chairman appoint managers with winning track records, correct ? There is no point cracking on with this if all you do is apply hindsight, and don't answer the questions I asked.... 93799[/snapback] Leazes, you reckon Shepherd has only made one bad appointment. You're wrong. Incidentally, how else would you like anyone to assess Shepherd's reign or that of the managers he employed other than by using hindsight? Selective foresight, as employed by yourself? 93988[/snapback] Would you say a manager who had won 2 league titles with 2 clubs and an FA Cup was anything other than a good appointment ? Would you say a manager who had won the FA Cup, and Cup Winners Cup was not a good appointment ? Would you say a manager with the stature, experience of Bobby Robson was not a good appointment ? Would you say Souness wasn't a good appointment [even though he won Scottish titles and the League Cup] Compare these records to ALL the current candidates, and you tell me who is the best qualified, who is under qualified, who would be good and who would not ? While you continue to apply hindsight, there is absolutely no point going further than this, because it's only showing your ignorance. Facts and consistency of judgement or nothing. [if you like you can tell me how many other premiership clubs have been big enough to appoint managers with such track records too, because if they are all bigger and more ambitious than us most of them should. You could also tell me how many managers with such track records we appointed at Newcastle before Shepherd took over as chairman? You could also tell me how many chairman at Newcastle have been better than Shepherd other than John Hall, as HTL has asked somewhere]. I don't expect any factual answers to prove your argument, other than the usual moronic non-factual response that Shepherd is crap...doh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Shepherd's appointment of Souness is the only bad call he's made, there is really no hope for you at all. 93600[/snapback] Are you trying to say that Dalglish and Gullit weren't trophy winning managers that ambitious clubs don't appoint ? 93798[/snapback] No, I'm saying they were failures and therefore, bad appointments. Do you think they were a success? 94070[/snapback] Pathetic Alex. Hindsight is an excuse for fools I'm afraid. Be honest and tell us what you thought at the time, hold your hands up and admit such judgement is difficult or don't bother. I thought that you were better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34187 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Wasting your time Alex, mate. The head's in the sand and it's not coming out for no man. Interesting though that Leazes can bleat on about the poor judgement exercised by those who said to give Souness time and exercise equally poor judgement in his assessment of Shepherd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Shepherd's appointment of Souness is the only bad call he's made, there is really no hope for you at all. 93600[/snapback] Are you trying to say that Dalglish and Gullit weren't trophy winning managers that ambitious clubs don't appoint ? 93798[/snapback] No, I'm saying they were failures and therefore, bad appointments. Do you think they were a success? 94070[/snapback] Pathetic Alex. Hindsight is an excuse for fools I'm afraid. Be honest and tell us what you thought at the time, hold your hands up and admit such judgement is difficult or don't bother. I thought that you were better than that. 94082[/snapback] I was happy with Dalglish and Robson, not greatly excited by Gullit, and frankly disgusted by the appointment of Souness. To me, (without hindsight) I thought he got 2 decisions right, and 2 decisions wrong. If we're not happy with his next appointment, can people complain then? If he takes someone other than Hitzfeld or O'Neill (which it's now looking certain that neither will take the job), does that mean he's not doing what the supporters want? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Would you say a manager who had won 2 league titles with 2 clubs and an FA Cup was anything other than a good appointment ? 94076[/snapback] No, because he was a failure, unless you argue he should have been given more time which is Shepherd's fault in any case. Would you say a manager who had won the FA Cup, and Cup Winners Cup was not a good appointment ? 94076[/snapback] See above Would you say a manager with the stature, experience of Bobby Robson was not a good appointment ? 94076[/snapback] No, I've never said it was a bad appointment though, so I'm bemused at the question. Shepherd fucked up the timing of his departure though big time. Would you say Souness wasn't a good appointment [even though he won Scottish titles and the League Cup] 94076[/snapback] Souness was a shit appointment, Shepherd to blame I'm afraid. Compare these records to ALL the current candidates, and you tell me who is the best qualified, who is under qualified, who would be good and who would not ? 94076[/snapback] I would prefer Hiddink or Hitzfeld but I think O'Neill could do a job. While you continue to apply hindsight, there is absolutely no point going further than this, because it's only showing your ignorance. Facts and consistency of judgement or nothing. 94076[/snapback] I'm still not sure how you can assess a manager's reign without applying hindsight. Perhaps I'm missing something. [if you like you can tell me how many other premiership clubs have been big enough to appoint managers with such track records too, because if they are all bigger and more ambitious than us most of them should. 94076[/snapback] Plenty other clubs have had more success but maybe they don't have to put up with an overbearing chairman. You could also tell me how many managers with such track records we appointed at Newcastle before Shepherd took over as chairman? 94076[/snapback] Apart from Robson, the net results have been largely the same, which is what matters. You could also tell me how many chairman at Newcastle have been better than Shepherd other than John Hall, as HTL has asked somewhere]. I don't expect any factual answers to prove your argument, other than the usual moronic non-factual response that Shepherd is crap...doh 94076[/snapback] Previous chairmen were largely terrible, I'll concede that. However the changing face of football has meant that Shepherd has had far more income at his disposal and despite this, he hasn't delivered any tangible success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Wasting your time Alex, mate. The head's in the sand and it's not coming out for no man. Interesting though that Leazes can bleat on about the poor judgement exercised by those who said to give Souness time and exercise equally poor judgement in his assessment of Shepherd. 94087[/snapback] pot,kettle,black. Still think Souness should be given time Gem ? I never backed Souness, and said from say 1 it was a mistake by Shepherd, the difference is I said he shouldn't be crucified for it...whereas you could equally say as you backed Souness you backed Shepherd because he appointed him.... At least I stick to my guns and don't make excuses for being wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I'll tell you something, the perception to many outsiders is that Shepherd is a problem. Whether that's fair or not, it's certainly holding the club back in terms of who we get in as manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Would you say a manager who had won 2 league titles with 2 clubs and an FA Cup was anything other than a good appointment ? 94076[/snapback] No, because he was a failure, unless you argue he should have been given more time which is Shepherd's fault in any case. Would you say a manager who had won the FA Cup, and Cup Winners Cup was not a good appointment ? 94076[/snapback] See above Would you say a manager with the stature, experience of Bobby Robson was not a good appointment ? 94076[/snapback] No, I've never said it was a bad appointment though, so I'm bemused at the question. Shepherd fucked up the timing of his departure though big time. Would you say Souness wasn't a good appointment [even though he won Scottish titles and the League Cup] 94076[/snapback] Souness was a shit appointment, Shepherd to blame I'm afraid. Compare these records to ALL the current candidates, and you tell me who is the best qualified, who is under qualified, who would be good and who would not ? 94076[/snapback] I would prefer Hiddink or Hitzfeld but I think O'Neill could do a job. While you continue to apply hindsight, there is absolutely no point going further than this, because it's only showing your ignorance. Facts and consistency of judgement or nothing. 94076[/snapback] I'm still not sure how you can assess a manager's reign without applying hindsight. Perhaps I'm missing something. [if you like you can tell me how many other premiership clubs have been big enough to appoint managers with such track records too, because if they are all bigger and more ambitious than us most of them should. 94076[/snapback] Plenty other clubs have had more success but maybe they don't have to put up with an overbearing chairman. You could also tell me how many managers with such track records we appointed at Newcastle before Shepherd took over as chairman? 94076[/snapback] Apart from Robson, the net results have been largely the same, which is what matters. You could also tell me how many chairman at Newcastle have been better than Shepherd other than John Hall, as HTL has asked somewhere]. I don't expect any factual answers to prove your argument, other than the usual moronic non-factual response that Shepherd is crap...doh 94076[/snapback] Previous chairmen were largely terrible, I'll concede that. However the changing face of football has meant that Shepherd has had far more income at his disposal and despite this, he hasn't delivered any tangible success. 94094[/snapback] You just don't get it, you think it's alright to change your opinion with the wind, a luxury you don't afford anyone else.... You are sounding like a whining manu fan thinking you have a right to success, we don't, we are aiming for it like we ought to do, more than the vast majority, but didn't for over 40 years, and still aiming for it under Shepherd... And you didn't answer those questions which if you are truthful may help you get some perspective . Anyway, no point carrying on with this if you aren't going to deal in facts and pursue pie in the sky hype, as I said I thought you at least could think it through Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I've answered every question you asked point by point giving my opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmill 34187 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Still think Souness should be given time Gem ? 94095[/snapback] Nah, he's been sacked. Don't tell me you didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Still think Souness should be given time Gem ? 94095[/snapback] Nah, he's been sacked. Don't tell me you didn't know. 94100[/snapback] Toontastic exclusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 BTW, if anyone is really deluded to think that Shepherd's appointment of Souness is the only bad call he's made, there is really no hope for you at all. 93600[/snapback] Are you trying to say that Dalglish and Gullit weren't trophy winning managers that ambitious clubs don't appoint ? 93798[/snapback] No, I'm saying they were failures and therefore, bad appointments. Do you think they were a success? 94070[/snapback] Pathetic Alex. Hindsight is an excuse for fools I'm afraid. Be honest and tell us what you thought at the time, hold your hands up and admit such judgement is difficult or don't bother. I thought that you were better than that. 94082[/snapback] I was happy with Dalglish and Robson, not greatly excited by Gullit, and frankly disgusted by the appointment of Souness. To me, (without hindsight) I thought he got 2 decisions right, and 2 decisions wrong. If we're not happy with his next appointment, can people complain then? If he takes someone other than Hitzfeld or O'Neill (which it's now looking certain that neither will take the job), does that mean he's not doing what the supporters want? 94091[/snapback] Well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Sitting in a whore house on a club payed trip slagging the players, the local women and the fans who you also admit you're ripping off doesn't make you a bad chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Sitting in a whore house on a club payed trip slagging the players, the local women and the fans who you also admit you're ripping off doesn't make you a bad chairman. 94144[/snapback] Bloody hell! That's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetleftpeg 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Sitting in a whore house on a club payed trip slagging the players, the local women and the fans who you also admit you're ripping off doesn't make you a bad chairman. 94144[/snapback] Bloody hell! That's right. 94183[/snapback] I'm saying, good work if you can get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 This has moved over to N-O if anyone fancies retreading old ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adios 717 Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 This has moved over to N-O if anyone fancies retreading old ground. 94320[/snapback] No thanks, that place hasn't been the same since the Hitzfeld forum died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 This has moved over to N-O if anyone fancies retreading old ground. 94320[/snapback] No thanks, that place hasn't been the same since the Hitzfeld forum died. 94322[/snapback] And the Lord said unto Moses one bad appointment does not a bad chairman make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeazesMag 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 (edited) Would you say a manager who had won 2 league titles with 2 clubs and an FA Cup was anything other than a good appointment ? 94076[/snapback] No, because he was a failure, unless you argue he should have been given more time which is Shepherd's fault in any case. So you wouldn't be happy if we appointed Wenger for instance ? Would you say a manager with the stature, experience of Bobby Robson was not a good appointment ? 94076[/snapback] No, I've never said it was a bad appointment though, so I'm bemused at the question. Shepherd fucked up the timing of his departure though big time. So you would have been unhappy if robson had been replaced by Wenger or Alex Ferguson ? Would you say Souness wasn't a good appointment [even though he won Scottish titles and the League Cup] 94076[/snapback] Souness was a shit appointment, Shepherd to blame I'm afraid. Well I always said that, but others backed him therefore backed Shepherds decision to keep him ... Edited February 14, 2006 by LeazesMag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shearergol 0 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Is my question getting ignored then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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